9.1.3 Question

[d_striker]

On 10/9/2018 at 3:36 PM, Sarge said:

Hmm... That should not matter at all. A range officers call should not need any corroboration. This is why only certified CRO/RO are used in larger matches. If a certified RO makes a call and is 100% sure of the call then it should be accepted without question. 

  And before somebody challenges with “what about a cheating RO?” , we all know that is extremely rare and eventually gets worked out. 

 

 

I'm not too concerned about cheating RO's as I don't think that happens often enough to worry about it.  I am concerned about NUMEROUS certified RO's that don't know how to properly use overlays and do not understand the simple concept of "touching" a scoring border/perforation.  

 

Your statement implies that the scoring calls of certified RO/CRO's is infallible and never incorrect.  We all know this is not true.

[d_striker]

7 minutes ago, HoMiE said:

The first section deals with what to do if a non RO scores target, you get the reshoot ifnscore cannot be determined. I think unsportsmanlike conduct is the call of shooter and buddy are trying to be scrupulous about it. 

 

I agree with you on the original language of the first section.  The suggested edit, however, contradicts the original language. 

 

If the suggested edit is approved, which language should be applied?  The original in the first section or the suggested edit?

Edited November 23, 2018 by d_striker

[HoMiE]

7 hours ago, d_striker said:

 

I agree with you on the original language of the first section.  The suggested edit, however, contradicts the original language. 

 

If the suggested edit is approved, which language should be applied?  The original in the first section or the suggested edit?

I don’t feel any edit is necessary. The second part is just stating if RO makes a call and target gets taped before shooter can see it, call stands. The edit is saying is target gets taped before RO can call it then you get 2 misses which goes against the premise of the RO being able to accurately make the correct call. 

Edited November 24, 2018 by HoMiE

[d_striker]

8 minutes ago, HoMiE said:

I don’t feel any edit is necessary. The second part is just stating if RO makes a call and target gets taped before shooter can see it, call stands. The edit is saying is target gets taped before RO can call it then you get 2 misses which goes against the premise of the RO being able to correctly make the correct call. 

 

I think we are in agreement.  I don't think the suggested edit is necessary either and is, in fact, not equitable. 

 

I think we've all been on both sides.....I've taped targets early on accident and I've had targets taped early on accident.  It happens at the end of a long day in the heat and humidity, especially when the RO's change the order in how they are scoring targets.  Penalizing a shooter with 2 mikes for an honest mistake is retarded.  

 

I do think that we should try to figure out a way to penalize those that are doing it intentionally to cheat with their buddies.  But I don't think this is it.

Edited November 23, 2018 by d_striker

[JayWord]

We will have a method in the future. All prematurely taped targets will require the RM be called in all instances. Prematurely taping a target is considered target scoring interference.

Accidentally and/or misunderstood no problems, issue the reshoot if unable to get a valid score. However, in cases that cannot be reasonably explained or a pattern that gives an advantage or re-shoot after a bad run might be a little harder to explain to an experienced RM. I have seen cases where no reasonable explaination other than getting their buddy a reshoot would be plausible.

 

Understand, the idea of the original post was if a target was blank when the RO arrived it would be scored as presented, i.e. blank. The advantage is no discussion on intent need be discussed. However, it was pointed out that it could be used to screw with a shooter instead of advantaging them. The poor shooter is being harmed and has no real recourse.

 

I was in a situation where a single shooter on a squad had had 3 separate stages in one match with a prematurely taped target on each. That should be an issue to all of us.

 

As to the other issue. If an RO sees the target before it is patched, the score can and usually stands. By rule if the target is prematurely patched by a RO it is a reshoot if no vailid score can be determined. This should be a rare situation.

 

Jay