ong45 Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 It would stand to reason that if you could learn to slap the trigger , you would get less occurences of trigger freeze. Maybe trigger control would be improved since the trigger hand would have to be more relaxed for this to work (at least in the 5-15 yard range) Anyone been able to get this to work? James Ong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Moore Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 i've been using the slapping method for the three or four matches and found myself moving up in the ranks. my hits are more accurate than before when i was pressing the trigger. even the itilian stalion can attest to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 What does it actually mean to "slap" the trigger? Are you removing your finger entirely from the trigger, and then "tapping" it with the pad of your finger or something? Thanks, DogmaDog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Well, I am glad if that technique is helping you on the short term, however, it is a poor habit to ingrain in your shooting program. Any, repeat ANY other method of using the trigger other than pressing it straight to the rear, causes poor and potentially harmful habits to creep into your shooting. You soon anticipate the discharge, the pistol can potentially shift in yur grip, and it is really poor when shooting distance or small targets. I am all for finding out what works for you, but if you are not purposefully pressing the trigger to the rear, trying to get that surprise break, with all the attention you can muster, it will hurt you in the long run. Just an old shooters .02 worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 of course, removing the trigger finger altogether from the trigger surface (as opposed to never letting go) and good trigger press are not mutually exclusive. I noticed on video that I lose all contact with the trigger, and I am not worried about this at all. This is what most people mean by *slapping* the trigger... --D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Bonedaddy and I were talking about trigger control a while back. We took a class from Avery and one of Avery's big points is isolating the action of the trigger finger. He also talks about being aware of the trigger and the instant it breaks. I have shot so many rounds through the years that I the only time I direct any attention to the trigger is on difficult shots. Like many shooters, my trigger finger is on auto pilot and I have gotten sloppy. FWIW, my finger visibly comes off of the trigger when I go real fast. I have had mixed results. I can tell you that us "trigger slapping maniacs" manage some pretty spectacular splits. Yeah, I know, splits don't mean squat. I am curious, how many accomplished shooters slap the trigger. We all know TGO uses that technique. Is he the only one? (Edited by Ron Ankeny at 9:24 am on Dec. 10, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 After looking into this, at a distance of 7 yards or less, my finger has a tendancy to come off the trigger and hard back on for every shot. At a middle distance, from about 7 to 15 yards, my finger stays on the trigger but still pulls it back pretty sharply. When we get to about 20 yards and beyond, trigger pull slows down a bit to assure a good break, but it isn't to the point of just squeeeeeeezing through till it breaks. I find even at 40 or 50 yards my shots are more accurate if I let go of trigger control and just simply pull the trigger without disturbing the sights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ong45 Posted December 10, 2002 Author Share Posted December 10, 2002 I first learned about slapping the trigger during a todd jarret class. It blew my mind that he's a slapper. He claims that a lot of the top dogs are slappers. I tested this one day with 6" plates at 20 yards ,with my limited gun i was hitting the plates with regularity. For most of us i think it is very difficult to be surprised by the break of the trigger anymore. As a added bonus, trying to slap the trigger might force you to improve your grip James Ong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Moore Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 i've even heard TGO slaps the trigger, however, i don't if it is true or not. like enos says in his book to try things out, what might work for you might not work for the next guy. i find that slapping the triggeror pulling sharply, helps me with targets out to 15yds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Oh, it's true. Watch video of Leatham shooting. His finger practically bangs the front of the trigger guard between shots. Doesn't seem to hurt his speed OR accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Rob and Todd are probably at the extreme ends of the 'slappers.' Todd does it but its barely noticible, TGO does it and its plain to every one...i'd almost swear he's bouncing it off the trigger guard. I "slap' (tap might be a better word) and I've found that the amount of movement is dependant on the difficulty of the shot. On close fast stuff, its weelllll off the trigger (almost TGOish) but as the distance increases, or the available surface decreases, finger movement reduces. I've done tests out to 50 yds and groups were equal to what I could do by prepping and squeezing off hand. The key is to use only the amount of pressure needed to release the hammer. If you are banging the trigger back into the frame, you will disturb the sight alignment. Only tap it as much as nessessary to fire the shot, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 Is trigger slapping kinda equipment dependent? I'm guessing that in order to slap without seriously adverse effects on your accuracy, you need a very light trigger with a very short pull length...like a 2 lb 1911 trigger. I wonder if it would work at all with my 4.5 lb Kimber. And what problem does it address, again? Late, DogmaDog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 I have to admit that I am very surprised at the number of folks who came out of the wood work to admit they slap the trigger. Maybe I will have to head out to the range and give it a try just to see what it is all about. I guess my sentiment against this technique stems from all the rifle work I have done since I was a boy. We are truly never too old to learn. I did not include TGO when I made my first post on this topic, becuse everyone knows he isn't really human and can do things regular folks can't. We'll see how it does for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArturoJ Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 I think that shotgun shooters tend to slap the trigger more than rifle shooters. At least for me the trigger slap that I have came from the shotgun side. Slight drift mode on: For many years I shot live game brids in field trial compitions, the bird dog kind. I had to be aware of two dog handlers, two dogs, and three judges on horse back. The bird field was about 100 yards square, with all off these "no shoots" all over the place. I used a quick mount/slap the trigger/spot shoot technique I came up with. I had to NOT sweep any off the "no shoots", no prep, no follow through. Oh by the way the dog handler allways wanted a dead bird in the air. A fair amount of cash (calcuta) and income for the pro dog handlers was on the line. Drift off: For good or bad that is where my trigger slap came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 Quote: from DogmaDog on 6:56 am on Dec. 11, 2002 Is trigger slapping kinda equipment dependent? I'm guessing that in order to slap without seriously adverse effects on your accuracy, you need a very light trigger with a very short pull length...like a 2 lb 1911 trigger. I wonder if it would work at all with my 4.5 lb Kimber. And what problem does it address, again? Late, DogmaDog Not really equipment dependant...I slap just about everything from my stock Springfield to my Open gun, and all my triggers have long travel. no overtravel stop or pre travel taken out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ong45 Posted December 12, 2002 Author Share Posted December 12, 2002 Dogmadog, At least for me, trigger freeze is the #1 consideration. Safety also could be improved since your finger will be well away when you are not shooting. I can also see improvements in cold weather shooting. James Ong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 Ong45, I'm just a "new" shooter so take it for what it's worth. Only a few months ago I also suffer from trigger freeze esp. with my glock. What I did every range time was to do Bill drills (full mag, no regard for shot placement) and just let it rip as fast as my finger can pull the trigger. Once trigger freeze sets in (usually on the second or third string) I stop with my finger fronzen in position (usually at the back). Then I feel my hands and note the tension. I realized this happens once I get too fast and the grip pressure has now shifted more to the strong hand and my weak hand basically is just limping. I then relax my strong hand grip and transfer more pressure to the weak hand (resume normal firing grip). Then continue firing until my finger gets sore or I run out of bullets. I guess it worked for me bec. I haven't experienced anymore freeze since. Hope this works out for you, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 a question to you Slappers Do you practice Slapping? My finger always stays in contact and I think its because thats how I dry fire. I tried "Slapping" tonight and it sure wasn't pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ong45 Posted December 14, 2002 Author Share Posted December 14, 2002 I have been trying to slap while dryfiring for about a month now. Not as hard as i thought it would be. Doing it when it counts is another matter though. James Ong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonedaddy Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 I've been working really hard to teach myself to NOT slap the trigger. (and making good progress too) Now I find out that guy's who are light years ahead, are slapping it. I would love to be able to slap the trigger and still get my hits! Now I'm wondering, is there a level of acceptability? Is there a time to slap and not to slap? Do they also slap at long distances and where high presicion is required? I'd really like to hear Ghost Dog's insights on this one. Brian, please? -Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 Sam: I just got back from the range. Funny thing, I don't give the trigger much consious thought and I am not even aware of what is going on...I think that might be a bad thing. Anyhow, I did some shooting this morning and I observed that I slap the trigger just about anytime I do splits much faster than .22. You remember Ron Avery telling us same speed in and same speed out? I guess I slap when I return the trigger quickly and reset on the tougher shots. Where is benos at a time like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravisT Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 Pat (as usual!) summed it up really well. Pay attention to what he said about his trigger setup. Trigger freeze starts higher up the chain than the finger. (Edited by TravisT at 3:33 pm on Dec. 19, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonedaddy Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 Whew! Thanks, Travis! I was wondering if I was missing the boat. I went back and read what Pat said again, it makes more sense now. Ron, I went over and blew away a few hundred rounds after posting my last question. I did feel my finger lift off the trigger several times while going pretty fast. (running the triple dog drill) I feel all better after reading Pat and Travis' explainations. Don't disturb the sights, that pretty much sums it all up. Once again, the be.com forum provides a life line to the geographically isolated shooter. Thanks All! -Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted December 15, 2002 Share Posted December 15, 2002 Brian once told me on a past discussion about slapping (still not an accurate word to describe it) that it has to do more with your personality traits. I lean more towards gross motor control so slapping works for me. Anybody who has seen TT pull a trigger knows how fast he gets it done and his finger hardly moves. While Robs finger clears the trigger guards and he still gets them out pretty quick. Both are damn accurate shooters too. So is 'slapping' right or wrong? Experiment and find out for yourself. Oh, and try to set up a video camera focused on where the gun is during firing and watch your finger for yourself...you may be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted December 15, 2002 Share Posted December 15, 2002 I was beginning to doubt what I was doing when I realized that there was no thought going on regarding the trigger. My attention seems to be mostly visual and I am not even aware of the trigger breaking until I see the sight lift. I don't know that it matters much because I usually hit what I am aiming at and most shots stay somewhere in the bay. Travis and Pat: I know we have about beat this horse to death, but please humor me. Ron Avery told me that the last thing he is aware of before the shot breaking is the trigger pull. He said he actually feels the trigger break and he is aware of the break and the reset. I am in awe of guys who can do that WFO. Maybe I am just not wired for that type of high speed processing. When you guys shoot do you actually have attention directed to the trigger and go through some thought process or are you just on auto pilot? Thanks. (Edited by Ron Ankeny at 8:43 pm on Dec. 14, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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