[Solved] Bolo not engaging DA pull. Did I mess something up/missing something?

[alvo89]

Further update:

 

After further testing of modded BOLO to fit my S2 with the new trigger bar, I get light primer strikes on the DA pull only.  SA hammer drops afterwards will fire the light struck rounds.

 

I tested Winchester and CCI primers, both failed on the initial/any DA pulls.  This was after removing about .025" from that curve.  Ran the S2 with the factory interrupter/disco and fired DA 100%.  This is all with my reloads.

 

I examined how far the hammer pulls back with the BOLO and it's not pulling as far back as with the factory disco on the DA pulls.  It releases at about 30-35 degrees w/BOLO rather than closer to the 40-45 degree mark with the factory part.

 

Any thoughts to remedy this/mod the BOLO further?

Edited August 11, 2017 by alvo89
clarity

[SoCalShooter69]

1. How deep are your primers? If they're. 060" or deeper, see #2. If not, what press are you loading on?

 

2. 

 

[alvo89]

26 minutes ago, SoCalShooter69 said:

1. How deep are your primers? If they're. 060" or deeper, see #2. If not, what press are you loading on?

 

2. 

 

They are under flush at about .0005 with CCI and .003 with Winchester.

 

I'm loading with a Lee classic single stage press (it takes so much dedication loading pistol ).

[alvo89]

Ah, that thread looks like a good read

[SoCalShooter69]

That press is your issue. Primers not deep enough. I wouldn't mod the bolo anymore; that's not the issue. 

Edited August 11, 2017 by SoCalShooter69

[MemphisMechanic]

I get Winchesters .005-.008" deep on Dillon 650 after shimming the primer punch. Even before modifying the bolo for more DA travel, it lit them off 100% on a 13lb P.D. hammer spring.

 

I had quite a few light strikes when they we less than .005" deep.

 

Edited August 11, 2017 by MemphisMechanic

[Tanfastic]

Have you verified that your firing pin block is not rubbing the firing pin?

[alvo89]

So for clarification what could be at fault would be not deep enough primers or rubbing firing pin block?

 

Because my S2 will fire off all my reloads in DA with my factory tanfo disco installed.  My glock 17 will fire them all also.  My primers are under flush, so they should be even deeper?

 

I feel like I narrowed it down to the BOLO, but is there something still for me to learn that I'm not quite comprehending about the overall mechanics?

 

I actually ended up shaving down my BOLO a little bit and from not firing any rounds from DA it now ignites about 16/20.

 

Im going to use the stock disco for my match tomorrow but would like to get the BOLO reliable for the future.

[SoCalShooter69]

5 minutes ago, alvo89 said:

So for clarification what could be at fault would be not deep enough primers or rubbing firing pin block?

 

Because my S2 will fire off all my reloads in DA with my factory tanfo disco installed.  My glock 17 will fire them all also.  My primers are under flush, so they should be even deeper?

 

I feel like I narrowed it down to the BOLO, but is there something still for me to learn that I'm not quite comprehending about the overall mechanics?

 

I actually ended up shaving down my BOLO a little bit and from not firing any rounds from DA it now ignites about 16/20.

 

Im going to use the stock disco for my match tomorrow but would like to get the BOLO reliable for the future.

 

As for the press - that single stage press is not capable of seating primers to the depth you need them. I started on the Lee single; been there, done that, participated in it. If you've been able to keep the single lee running okay, you'll do just fine with a Loadmaster. The stock disco isn't a fine tuned piece, as in, you can't put a supercharger in a corvette and expect it to run just as good on the '87 gas you've been using. We've all been there, and there has been extensive discussion about bolo vs. primer depth and reliability. 

[alvo89]

21 minutes ago, SoCalShooter69 said:

 

As for the press - that single stage press is not capable of seating primers to the depth you need them. I started on the Lee single; been there, done that, participated in it. If you've been able to keep the single lee running okay, you'll do just fine with a Loadmaster. The stock disco isn't a fine tuned piece, as in, you can't put a supercharger in a corvette and expect it to run just as good on the '87 gas you've been using. We've all been there, and there has been extensive discussion about bolo vs. primer depth and reliability. 

Hmm, after scouring through forums I take it it could be the primer depth.  Maybe I'm not putting enough pressure (I go until it feels like it will crush) or the press is incapable.

 

I reload for bolt and match rifle and never had this problem since I'm using fresh, consistent Lapua brass, but I guess reloading pistol is just another animal.

 

I'll tinker with my press when I fly back home.

[Tanfastic]

33 minutes ago, alvo89 said:

So for clarification what could be at fault would be not deep enough primers or rubbing firing pin block?

 

Because my S2 will fire off all my reloads in DA with my factory tanfo disco installed.  My glock 17 will fire them all also.  My primers are under flush, so they should be even deeper?

 

I feel like I narrowed it down to the BOLO, but is there something still for me to learn that I'm not quite comprehending about the overall mechanics?

 

I actually ended up shaving down my BOLO a little bit and from not firing any rounds from DA it now ignites about 16/20.

 

Im going to use the stock disco for my match tomorrow but would like to get the BOLO reliable for the future.

 

If you ever trudge through my Stock II Xtreme Mod List thread, you'll see I went through virtually the exact same thing you are.  Yes, primer depth seating, as well as which primers you're using, has a big impact on the strike reliability.  But it's not the only factor.  In my case the other important factors ended up being both the fit of the bolo as well as a dragging firing pin block.  I was able in the end to get it all worked out and now 100% reliable.  I'd look at all three factors and get them all resolved, and you should be good to go. 

[SoCalShooter69]

51 minutes ago, alvo89 said:

Hmm, after scouring through forums I take it it could be the primer depth.  Maybe I'm not putting enough pressure (I go until it feels like it will crush) or the press is incapable.

 

I reload for bolt and match rifle and never had this problem since I'm using fresh, consistent Lapua brass, but I guess reloading pistol is just another animal.

 

I'll tinker with my press when I fly back home.

 

I've been where you're trying to go with the Lee single stage. It is impossible. 

 

Also, Good advice to check your firing pin block and firing pin for drag marks.

Edited August 11, 2017 by SoCalShooter69

[MemphisMechanic]

Everything you do to the gun to produce a better trigger is going to reduce the force with which the DA hits the primer. Mine is eating pretty much everything at a 6 pound DA so I'm done, but getting it there with all the go-fast goodies is an exercise in patience in gunsmithing...

 

...And in ammo loading. Until this gun "flush or better" was always good on Glock and M&P. If they weren't high, it went bang.

 

Now? I can tell you how many thousandths below flush my primers are seating, and combined with removing all drag inside the gun, it runs pretty much flawlessly. The bolo, even modified, doesn't crank the hammer back as far in DA. That's just the way it is. So you can take you're time shaving down it's nose, but your ammo and chamber reaming and firing pin block fit still have to be on point.

 

 

Edited August 12, 2017 by MemphisMechanic

[SoCalShooter69]

2 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Everything you do to the gun to produce a better trigger is going to reduce the force with which the DA hits the primer. Mine is eating pretty much everything at a 6 pound DA so I'm done, but getting it there with all the go-fast goodies is an exercise in patience in gunsmithing...

 

...And in ammo loading. Until this gun "flush or better" was always good on Glock and M&P. If they weren't high, it went bang.

 

Now? I can tell you how many thousandths below flush my primers are seating, and combined with removing all drag inside the gun, it runs pretty much flawlessly. The bolo, even modified, doesn't crank the hammer back as far in DA. That's just the way it is. So you can take you're time shaving down it's nose, but your ammo and chamber reaming and firing pin block fit still have to be on point.

 

 

 

Probably the best post in this thread. 

[alvo89]

Thanks everybody for the input.  After reading half of that Stock II Xtreme Mod list thread and the posts, it's all coming together now with the further detailed explanations.

[alvo89]

Read a bunch, went down the rabbit hole and finally ponied up and bought a RCBS hand-primer.  I got my primers seated in the 0.01" range.  Loaded up some BBL's and they were 100% reliable with DA.  Before the hand-primer tool, ignorant me just didn't know how deep primers could even go!  Thanks for the schooling everybody.  

[SoCalShooter69]

4 hours ago, alvo89 said:

Read a bunch, went down the rabbit hole and finally ponied up and bought a RCBS hand-primer.  I got my primers seated in the 0.01" range.  Loaded up some BBL's and they were 100% reliable with DA.  Before the hand-primer tool, ignorant me just didn't know how deep primers could even go!  Thanks for the schooling everybody.  

 

Haha, awesome. Glad you were able to start getting them balls deep. ?

[ern1911]

I ended up buying a trigger bar from EAA and installing that rather then cutting the BOLO it works perfect and I still have the new style trigger bar. 

[Gviz]

On 8/5/2017 at 11:43 PM, SoCalShooter69 said:

**** For everyone with a newer style trigger bar or new S2 - contact Patriot before you place your order to let them know. They will mod the bolo for you, so it's able to drop-in the new style trigger bar. ****

Thanks for the info wow I just stumbled on this... must have this on MemphisM tanfoglio bible 

[MemphisMechanic]

51 minutes ago, Gviz said:

Thanks for the info wow I just stumbled on this... must have this on MemphisM tanfoglio bible 

 

The Tanfo bible is pretty much worthless anymore unless you're shooting IPSC outside the US(PSA).

 

Patriot's parts totally changed the best way to set up one of these guns now, and weren't out when I put that thing together.

[alvo89]

10 hours ago, ern1911 said:

I ended up buying a trigger bar from EAA and installing that rather then cutting the BOLO it works perfect and I still have the new style trigger bar. 

oh...good thinking... 

 

So you had a Tanfo with the "gen 2" trigger bar and installed the older version bar with BOLO into it?  Installed with no problems?

 

I might try going that route when PD gets more BOLO's in stock.  For reliable DA, I have to use a 15# hammer spring with my cut BOLO as opposed to the setup I have now with the factory disco and 13# hammer spring.  Maybe the stock geometry of the BOLO will fair better.

 

After much training, factory trigger feel with polishing and lighter hammer spring isn't so bad tho...

Edited September 13, 2017 by alvo89

[SoCalShooter69]

2 hours ago, alvo89 said:

oh...good thinking... 

 

So you had a Tanfo with the "gen 2" trigger bar and installed the older version bar with BOLO into it?  Installed with no problems?

 

I might try going that route when PD gets more BOLO's in stock.  For reliable DA, I have to use a 15# hammer spring with my cut BOLO as opposed to the setup I have now with the factory disco and 13# hammer spring.  Maybe the stock geometry of the BOLO will fair better.

 

After much training, factory trigger feel with polishing and lighter hammer spring isn't so bad tho...

 

They should be in stock soon. Our machine shop took a massive hit from the hurricane, and put us back a few weeks. 

 

Is your DA short? There's a mod to get a longer DA throw, if that's your issue?

 

 

[MemphisMechanic]

2 hours ago, alvo89 said:

I might try going that route when PD gets more BOLO's in stock.  For reliable DA, I have to use a 15# hammer spring with my cut BOLO as opposed to the setup I have now with the factory disco and 13# hammer spring.  Maybe the stock geometry of the BOLO will fair better.

 

How did you modify the Bolo?

 

The Bolo does not push the hammer back as far as a stock disconnector, and requires more hammer spring to light off marginally seated or harder primers.

 

Modifying the nose of it to increase the DA stroke length got my gun reliable with every primer I used.

 

I usually fed it CCI Magnums using a 15.5lb spring, and it ran on Winchester and S&B primers all day long with a 13lb spring.

 

Even a stroked Bolo doesn't crank the hammer back quite as far as the factory disconnector did, but that doesn't mean it can't be reliable without needing heavy springs to get there.

 

Edited September 13, 2017 by MemphisMechanic

[alvo89]

4 hours ago, SoCalShooter69 said:

 

They should be in stock soon. Our machine shop took a massive hit from the hurricane, and put us back a few weeks. 

 

Is your DA short? There's a mod to get a longer DA throw, if that's your issue?

 

 

Well in my case, one day after cleaning the internals of my S2 with new trigger bar and cut BOLO to fit the new bar, the gun would short stroke in DA.  Before that it was running reliably with a 15# hammer spring.  So after that I just put back in the factory disco.  I did try some grease in some spots and reinstalling all the internals to see if it would not short stroke, but no luck.  I might try installing it again tonight.

 

3 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

How did you modify the Bolo?

 

The Bolo does not push the hammer back as far as a stock disconnector, and requires more hammer spring to light off marginally seated or harder primers.

 

Modifying the nose of it to increase the DA stroke length got my gun reliable with every primer I used.

 

I usually fed it CCI Magnums using a 15.5lb spring, and it ran on Winchester and S&B primers all day long with a 13lb spring.

 

Even a stroked Bolo doesn't crank the hammer back quite as far as the factory disconnector did, but that doesn't mean it can't be reliable without needing heavy springs to get there.

 

I removed material at the inner curve to fit the new trigger bar and I did actually remove material at the nose when the BOLO was working in my case.  However with the tools I had, I removed material more throughout the inner curve as opposed to the targeted area as shown here and on the PD website.  I was not able to further test if it would run lighter hammer springs (14# and below).  So with that said I don't know if the removal of material outside of the targeted area in the curve would adversely affect the DA making it short stroke.

 

So basically I did get the BOLO to work as intended, but somehow it started short stroking DA after cleaning and reinstalling internals.

[Tanfastic]

36 minutes ago, alvo89 said:

Well in my case, one day after cleaning the internals of my S2 with new trigger bar and cut BOLO to fit the new bar, the gun would short stroke in DA.  Before that it was running reliably with a 15# hammer spring.  So after that I just put back in the factory disco.  I did try some grease in some spots and reinstalling all the internals to see if it would not short stroke, but no luck.  I might try installing it again tonight.

 

I removed material at the inner curve to fit the new trigger bar and I did actually remove material at the nose when the BOLO was working in my case.  However with the tools I had, I removed material more throughout the inner curve as opposed to the targeted area as shown here and on the PD website.  I was not able to further test if it would run lighter hammer springs (14# and below).  So with that said I don't know if the removal of material outside of the targeted area in the curve would adversely affect the DA making it short stroke.

 

So basically I did get the BOLO to work as intended, but somehow it started short stroking DA after cleaning and reinstalling internals.

 

I made that same mistake, YES taking too much material off all across the curve on the inside of the BOLO will mess it up and it will start slipping off the trigger bar.