Head Position

[TravisT]

Paul,

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It seems the head/shoulders move as an unconcious response to; A) The need for speed  

anxiety/nerves/fear

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Only if they're programmed to.

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Which brings me back to this, if under tension/stress I will unconciously move into this posture, why not start there and learn to operate at an optimal level while there?  Sort of embracing it rather than fighting it.

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But we don’t have to compromise and "embrace" antagonistic tension. We have complete control over the manner in which the subconscious acts/reacts.

[Paul Sharp]

"But we don’t have to compromise and "embrace" antagonistic tension. We have complete control over the manner in which the subconscious acts/reacts."

Travis,

I would have agreed at one time but after reading the material put out by Tony Blauer, Geoff Thompson and other self-defense type trainers on the Flinch response, I'm not so sure.  Their contention is that the Flinch response is programmed into us to a point we can't really train it out.  Although we can incorporate this flinch into our response.  

"Only if they're programmed to."

Agreed, but, again we see examples of the top guy's training themselves and others to shoot with an erect type posture, yet doing something different when its time to turn it up.

How would you suggest one go about attaining complete control over how the subconcious acts/reacts?

I know how I do it with the guy's in my gym that close their eyes or snap their head back when they get hit.

[TravisT]

Hi Paul,

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 Their contention is that the Flinch response is programmed into us to a point we can't really train it out.

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Even if their contention is accurate, I still firmly believe that we can shape the manifestation of this "flinch response". I apologize if that’s your point too.

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Agreed, but, again we see examples of the top guy's training themselves and others to shoot with an erect type posture, yet doing something different when its time to turn it up.

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Not everybody ;)

Sometimes it can be tricky using the veterans as an example, because of their huge experience advantage (20 plus years!). Not to mention, so much goes on during the course of a match, that other aspects can compensate for less than ideal physical form.

To see something really interesting, go to the USPSA webpage and check out the results for the ’99 Limited Nationals. That was by far the *most* relaxed and upright I’ve ever seen the Burner shoot; and just look what he did to us! Come to think of it, he also saw a chiropractor during that match.

Take care,

T2

[Paul Sharp]

Travis,

Thanks for your thoughts on this, Brian just started a thread on conditioned flinch with a post that really makes you, (at least me ) think.

Man, we seriously drifted this thread.

[Loves2Shoot]

As a recovering flinch-a-holic I want to give hope to you who think it is a disease and can't be cured. Throw a whole bunch of lead downrange (.22's are good for this,) try to see as much as you can while doing so. Learn to relax when shooting (whatever you shoot) and a whole lot of "other" shooting problems will disappear also.

I have seen TT shoot a few times and he is pretty fast (understatment of the day) and you won't see many people that look any more relaxed. For me flinching came from being tense and fearing the bang, mass quantities of 22's fixed this for me, maybe that is how you retrain the subconcious. When I pull the trigger I know the gun will go bang, but I really don't hear it much anymore, as there are better things to focus on. Like trying to figure out how TT can index targets so dang faassttt (I think he has X-ray vision.)

Good Luck!