Gun Won't Fire

[John Heiter]

I've got a Para 16-40 frame, Caspian slide, with primarily Ed Brown and EGW internals with something like 25,000 rounds through it. Today when I was getting in some practice down at the range I racked the slide and tried to dry fire but the hammer would not fall. I double checked my grip to make sure I had activated the grip safety, made sure the ambi safety was off, made sure the hammer was back, etc. but it still wouldn't fall. I racked the slide a couple of times and I could see the top of the disconnector moving up and down some as it was exposed by the breech face going past it but it was a no go. I finally got the hammer to fall by holding back on the trigger while racking the slide, letting off of the trigger until it reset, and then pulling it. After that it ran for a couple hundred rounds of practice before doing it one more time just before I left for the day. That makes three times the gun has done this to me but the first time was well over a year ago and I had dismissed it as some sort of gunk in the lower end fluke that was corrected by a good cleaning. Does this sound familiar to anyone and can anyone tell me what is going on so I can fix it or avoid having this happen again?

Thanks guys,

John

[TBF]

I am absolutely NOT a real gunsmith.

Could the mag release be moving around in the frame ?

( this is what the overtravel screw in the trigger indexes on )

If so you can try backing the overtravel screw out just a little.

Travis F.

[John Heiter]

The mag release appears to be pretty firmly in there. No play that I can detect.

[Powder Finger]

Sounds like the overtravel screw turning in on it's own.

turn out a turn or two to see if it works.

then remove trigger & peen where the screw goes or use locktite.

[reneet]

Possible problems...

overtravel screw (set too close)

they don't often move by themselves although it is possible

trigger bow/mag issue (front corners of the trigger bow need to be shaped)

sear spring issue

[John Heiter]

I've got a Dlask trigger with a magnesium shoe. I'm not saying the overtravel screw can't move around but it seems firm. I think the oxidation on the surface of the magnesium around the overtravel screw acts like a thread locker on it's own. I'm leaning twoard Renee's spring issue but I'm still not sure what the cause is. Anyone got a quick explanation on what would happen if the sear leaf didn't have enough pressure on it vs. what would happen if the disconnector didn't? I don't want to go bending on mine to find out until I have a better handle on what is going on.

I think the problem may be in the location of the locator hole that the bottom of the leaf spring sits in. I think it's too far down because both the sear and disconnector tabs engage pretty far down. The disconnector tab is so far down that it is almost sitting on the trigger bow itself when the disconnector is up. I swapped the leaf spring with one from a factory colt for comparison and the disconnector tab sits halfway up the slope on the bottom of the disconnector in the colt. Anyone ever heard of anything like this before?

[reneet]

I think the problem may be in the location of the locator hole that the bottom of the leaf spring sits in.  I think it's too far down because both the sear and disconnector tabs engage pretty far down.  The disconnector tab is so far down that it is almost sitting on the trigger bow itself when the disconnector is up.  I swapped the leaf spring with one from a factory colt for comparison and the disconnector tab sits halfway up the slope on the bottom of the disconnector in the colt.  Anyone ever heard of anything like this before?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not enough tension on sear typically causes hammer fall. Disconnector leaf too short can intermittently cause the problem you've described.

Not the 1st time I've heard of this happening but it's normally on the S_I style guns. Can't say I've heard of it happening on a Para. The handful of times we've run into this, we just picked through a box full of sear springs until we found one that was bent closer toward the bottom allowing the top end to engage properly. Don't know if anyone out there specifically makes a longer sear spring.

Have you totally eliminated the 2nd possible problem I mentioned? I've run into this after having a new trigger fitted to a couple of my guns. It's usually a mag sensitive type thing. It'll happen with some mags but not others.

[Powder Finger]

Another thing that can happen to cause this is the disconnector not moving up high enough to fully engage the sear. In other words when you pull the trigger the diconnector just slides under the sear not moving it enough to clear the hammer hooks. You should be able to see that condition with the gun assembled less the grip safety.

[Powder Finger]

Not all sear springs are the same lenghth, I think wolf's are fairly long. Short ones can cause a poor feel also.

[folsoml]

Had the sear disconnector finger on the leaf spring break once and it did just what you described...except it wouldn't fire again until I replaced it.

[John Heiter]

I'm pretty sure I've isolated it to the disconnector leaf on the sear spring. I did lots of playing around with it while it was stripped down and it's pretty easy to see that the trigger bow doesn't come anywhere near the mag tunnel and the overtravel screw is still fine. I've got a couple new springs on the way from Brownells. Hopefully one of them will be long enough to fix the problem without having to weld up and recut the slot for the sear spring to rest in. Thanks to everyone, especially Renee, for the assistance.