Is loading as long as possible really best?

[IDescribe]

The space between 25 and 50 yards is where the genuinely good separates itself from the adequate. And it's not just your ammo. It's more than likely that the barrel bushing in your service pistol doesn't have what it takes to do well at 50 yards. 1911 bullseye shooters use match bushings for a reason.

[EngineerEli]

Uspsa is the only game I'm concerned with, and I would say the longest shots we ever see are about 25 yards. Plus I do use coated lead Bullets. Jacketed Bullets aren't worth the extra cost for my needs.

[ES13Raven]

-3.7gr of Titegroup...I stuck to common domestic powders as I didn't want a load for a powder I couldn't get regularly.

-115gr XTP/HAP, though Sierra Sportsmasters, Zeros, etc work well

-1.14" seems to be a happy OAL in most guns with that bullet. Short chambers won't take it and you'll have to shorten the length.

Great info!

Did you test any 147gr bullets? What other powders did you test for minor?

[Southpaw]

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing! I wish I could shoot accurately enough to test groups like that at 50 yards .

I'm curious, just how bad did some of the less accurate loads get? Still more than acceptable for USPSA type shooting or were some just horribly inaccurate?

Did you only test jacketed bullets or also any coated lead or plated?

Plated bullets were shit accuracy, coated were pretty good, and lead shot well when the bore was clean. "Bad" groups were around 6" at 50 for the better bullets, and 12" for plated. Still easily good enough for a 15 yard USPSA shot, just not for the high accuracy game.

Thanks again. That plated accuracy is pretty poor. Even for USPSA we occasionally have 50 yard standards and if that accuracy translates to 6" at 25 yards that's easily the difference between As and Cs or a hit and a no shoot. I'm currently shooting plated bullets , I need to test them more. It doesn't help that I suck at slow fire group shooting

[RippinSVT]

-3.7gr of Titegroup...I stuck to common domestic powders as I didn't want a load for a powder I couldn't get regularly.

-115gr XTP/HAP, though Sierra Sportsmasters, Zeros, etc work well

-1.14" seems to be a happy OAL in most guns with that bullet. Short chambers won't take it and you'll have to shorten the length.

Great info!

Did you test any 147gr bullets? What other powders did you test for minor?

No, for Bianchi I only shoot 147's in my 38SC Open gun. I stick to 115's in 9mm for Production/Metallic.

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing! I wish I could shoot accurately enough to test groups like that at 50 yards .

I'm curious, just how bad did some of the less accurate loads get? Still more than acceptable for USPSA type shooting or were some just horribly inaccurate?

Did you only test jacketed bullets or also any coated lead or plated?

Plated bullets were shit accuracy, coated were pretty good, and lead shot well when the bore was clean. "Bad" groups were around 6" at 50 for the better bullets, and 12" for plated. Still easily good enough for a 15 yard USPSA shot, just not for the high accuracy game.

Thanks again. That plated accuracy is pretty poor. Even for USPSA we occasionally have 50 yard standards and if that accuracy translates to 6" at 25 yards that's easily the difference between As and Cs or a hit and a no shoot. I'm currently shooting plated bullets , I need to test them more. It doesn't help that I suck at slow fire group shooting

I've gotten better than that with plated, but never ever what I think to be "good", in any caliber. Coated bullets tend to shoot really well without the mess of lead and the inconsistency of plated. My Open gun will put 6 shots of coated 147's on a tennis ball at 50, and that's my practice load. The match load will put 6 on a nickel at 50.

I've gotta check, but I think I've had like 2500 plated .45's under my bench for like a decade.

[IDescribe]

The match load will put 6 on a nickel at 50.

Under one inch groups at 50 yards? C'mon, man.

[RippinSVT]

6 shots into .68", yes. Typical is an inch for 6.

Go ahead, call BS, I'll make a video blah blah blah. Been down this road already. I'm not some magazine racer and I'm not saying I can do it with my eyes closed.

100 yard 5-shot group I shot the other day was 1.78"

This isn't some slapped together piece, it is literally one of the most accurate 1911's on the planet, and I shoot a 2MOA Aimpoint on it, which helps.

[RippinSVT]

BTW it's a 38SC minor Bianchi open gun, not a USPSA Open gun. If a Bianchi open gun doesn't shoot at least sub-1.5", it's not the norm.

[IDescribe]

Totally my bad, Rippin. In my head we were talking not only USPSA but 9mm as well. I know what pistols purpose-built for 50 yards can do.

[RippinSVT]

It's all good brother.

[ChemistShooter]

To those who may doubt the effect of OAL on 9mm accuracy, I did the grand-pubah of 9mm accuracy tests last spring before Bianchi Cup, testing different brass, bullets, powders, primers, and OAL. By the end of it all I was able to get a factory G34 to shoot 6 shots into 2.6" at 50 yards from a bag. OAL made a huge difference in that test, as much as 4" group-size difference at 50. I have since used that magic load in 3 other guns with great success, as good as 1.4" at 50 for 6 shots, however I did tweek OAL for each barrel leade.

As for the Ransom, I have one I never use. I just shoot prone or benched.

So, what is this magic load???

I'd also be very interested in hearing the rest of the results from you testing with different bullets, powders, OAL, etc.

(134PF minor load)

-Matched 9mm cases from Speer or Lapua preferred, others work ok too, but they must match to shoot consistently. I use Lapua for major matches and buy on clearance when it's $12/100 (NOT $32/100)

-3.7gr of Titegroup...I stuck to common domestic powders as I didn't want a load for a powder I couldn't get regularly.

-115gr XTP/HAP, though Sierra Sportsmasters, Zeros, etc work well

-Federal SPP

-1.14" seems to be a happy OAL in most guns with that bullet. Short chambers won't take it and you'll have to shorten the length.

-consistent light taper crimp. Just enough to remove bell and add a smidgen of extra tension without any bullet deformation.

A few things were obvious during accuracy testing.

-Light and heavy loads shot well. Compromise loads were only so-so (140-155PF)

-Conical bullets, like XTP's, shot by FAR the best, though RN's and truncated can do ok

-Fast dense powders ruled for minor loads...TG, Bullseye, etc. I would have tested VV powders but I wanted to stay common/domestic. HS6, PP, etc were not winners for accuracy.

-Cases must match and crimp must be consistent and just right. Small cases and small variations=large extreme spreads. Rem primer pockets were loose and inconsistent, Winchester case rims were inconsistent and thus headspace was inconsistent. Speer was by far the best of the common "range brass", with Fed close behind.

-Fed SPP's gave reliable ignition and low ES/SD. Winchesters did well too, and CCI's were good but sensitive to primer pocket variations and compromised reliability (hard cup). Remingtons were similar to the Winchesters. All can work fine, but the Feds always go bang. I may do some testing with SPP Magnums since I've got 3000 collecting dust.

-After you've done a little bench testing for powder charge, then do an OAL test with 5 shot groups at 50 yards from 1.070" to 1.160" in .005" increments. You'll be amazed when you find a sweetspot.

None of this matters for steel, USPSA, IDPA, etc, but if you're a paper-puncher, AP shooter, Bullseye shooter, or PPC shooter, it makes a world of difference. I had one horrible event at Bianchi this year when my glasses fogged in the rain, so my scores didn't reflect, but this load method helped me pick up points at the long lines. I went on to use this load to place highly in a few Regionals since then, and my subsequent X-count was as high as the guy who won 4th at Bianchi, despite my overall score being equivalent to what 10-12th place shot at Bianchi. I'm talking about a Metallic sight gun where the X's don't come as easy as my Open rig. I think my last match was 1817/1920-114X, when most scores in that range yield 80-100X. All I know is that when I flub a shot that's a borderline 8-ring, I don't need the load working against me to help it into the lower scoring ring.

Cheers.

How do you judge "bullet deformation"? Obvious bullet-squashing in the case or do you pull the bullet first?

[EngineerEli]

Usually you just load a blank, then pull the bullet. There should just be the slightest indentation of the case mouth on the bullet.

[IDescribe]

And when you notice that fingernail crescent cut in the bullet base, that's not from seating, it's from the bullet bouncing back into the case mouth when you break down the cartridge with an impact puller.

[d_striker]

To those who may doubt the effect of OAL on 9mm accuracy, I did the grand-pubah of 9mm accuracy tests last spring before Bianchi Cup, testing different brass, bullets, powders, primers, and OAL. By the end of it all I was able to get a factory G34 to shoot 6 shots into 2.6" at 50 yards from a bag. OAL made a huge difference in that test, as much as 4" group-size difference at 50. I have since used that magic load in 3 other guns with great success, as good as 1.4" at 50 for 6 shots, however I did tweek OAL for each barrel leade.

As for the Ransom, I have one I never use. I just shoot prone or benched.

Did you find that it was a consistent distance off the lands that determined accuracy? In my limited testing, I found .010"-.015" off the lands was most accurate in two different CZ's.

Did you ever post your results? That sounds like an amazing test you did.

Edited January 22, 2016 by d_striker