PTG blueprinted receivers. Decent path to semi-custom?

[BitchinCamaro]

I was cruising Pacific Tool and Gauge for reamers and such and I came across their blueprinted receivers with 1pc. bolts.

I tried to imagine what a basic build would look like and cost. It seemed like a good starting point. I've also been totally delusional about the economy of shooting 3gun in the past, so let me know what I'm missing.

PTG blueprinted receiver and 1-pc bolt (Black Friday price): $524

Pre-fit Pacnor/McGowen/remmage barrel (remmage writeup here): $450

Fancy Trigger of choice (Timney/Jewel/Shilen/RifleBasix ): $175

Nightforce Scope mount (Ebay): $60

Kinetic Research Group Xray Chassis: $ 600

Approximate total (w/o glass or mags): $1909

Comparing the $525 PTG'ed receiver to building the same thing from a factory donor, it seems like a good deal.

Factory Rem700 receiver or donor rifle : $400 (not using factory barrel/trigger/bolt)

One piece PTG ground/threaded/fluted/Extractor'ed bolt : $202

Action Blueprinting and fitting raceways to bolt : $250-350

Keeping the factory 2pc bolt and having it fluted($90)/threaded($70)/sleeved($200)/extractor'ed($150) just doesn't even seem worth it. At that point, you're within a few dollars of buying a boutique custom action. Is all that needed? Maybe not, but then what's the point of going semi-custom in the first place?

Plus, receivers fitted tightly to hardened and oversize bolts just feel damn sexy.

All of this makes the Ruger PR seem like that much of a deal, and it is, but if you want a caliber that's not .308 or 6.6CM or you just don't like the RPR then it might be a viable alternate path to a "budget" comp gun...right?

Edit: Except for a few shares of Ruger stock, I've no affiliation or brand loyalty to any of the above mentioned companies.

Edited November 29, 2015 by BitchinCamaro

[ShooterSteve]

PTG is a company that will drive a lot of people insane. I know people who have ordered things, and after months of not coming in, they called and cancelled the order only to be charged with an order cancellation fee when PTG didn't even have the parts yet. I called them last year to order an action and a stock. They weren't sure when they would get actions in, and they couldn't tell me if they had any stocks in house. They could not look at their computer and tell me what they had, or when or anything should come in. They told me they would have to go and look, and then get back to me. After I hadn't heard from them for several days, I called Bob at Southwest Precision, and he had everything. Stiller action, Kreiger barrel, McMillan stock, Timney trigger, everything! So I bought it all. A couple days later the girl from PTG called me back (it had been a week by now) and then actually got irate that I had ordered my stuff from some one else. I know they make great reamers and tools, but they are a classic example of a small shop that outgrew themselves. The girls who answer the phones know nothing of what they have, and to be honest, are just people on the phone that simply take orders. I have not done any business with them since then, so I hope things have improved, but there are too many good people out there like Bob, or Greg over at Bugholes, for me to bang my head against a brick wall with the people at PTG. SH is full of posts like mine about them, so mine wasn't an isolated case.

[BitchinCamaro]

Yea, I've heard that customer service became a bit of a cluster when they moved into a larger building. I'm surprised you got a callback.

Apparently you can still speak directly with Dave Kiff and get info directly, so that's something.

Calling up and ordering a custom from a competent gunsmith is a consideration, but sort of out of the scope of this (hypothetical) build intent. A stiller is also $500 more right off the bat. How much was your total build (minus glass) if you don't mind me asking?

While acknowledging the incompetent inventory system and lack of capable employees to manage it, I was just wondering if there was something of a technical fault with the PTG bolt/receiver combos. Assuming you get the thing, they're supposed to be guaranteed true to within .0002" TIR to the raceways.

The PTG combo, as I figured it, is actually cheaper/functionally superior to starting out with a factory 700 and having it worked. I just feel like I may be missing something from a materials and engineering standpoint.

[JonKC]

I would highly recommend looking into a Tikka T3 build.

The Gun Vault in Jordan, UT has put together some great rifles with Tikka actions and X-ray chassis.

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[BitchinCamaro]

I love Tikkas! I used a T3 in WSM for hunting this year.

If the plan were to just run a factory action/barrel I would definitely get a Tikka or Howa 1500 over a stock R700

I just thought the PTG seemed like an exceptionally good value for a semi-custom relative to purchasing a 700 donor and having it worked over. I still don't see why it's not.

The Black Friday Sale is over and I didn't jump on one, but I did pick up some bottom metal and reamers for a different build direction. Hopefully they'll ship without hassle. I guess my end goal is to have a serviceable comp rifle that hits all the basic needs. I don't want to go balls out on a build for a PRS style gun that I would shoot in 5 matches a year (which is likely given that the rest of the 2016 shooting schedule is already filled with pistol/multigun matches).

Having the switch barrel capability would just have been icing on the cake so I could buy a new barrel and headspace it myself without having to send it out to a gunsmith each time. Most of the popular gunsmiths are quoting me 10-14 weeks for a rechambering at the moment.

Edited December 1, 2015 by BitchinCamaro

[michael1778]

I love Tikkas! I'm used a T3 in WSM for hunting this year.

If the plan were to just run a factory action/barrel I would definitely get a Tikka or Howa 1500 over a stock R700

I just thought the PTG seemed like an exceptionally good value for a semi-custom relative to purchasing a 700 donor and having it worked over. I still don't see why it's not.

The Black Friday Sale is over and I didn't jump on one, but I did pick up some bottom metal and reamers for a different build direction. Hopefully they'll ship without hassle. I guess my end goal is to have a serviceable comp rifle that hits all the basic needs. I don't want to go balls out on a build for a PRS style gun that I would shoot in 5 matches a year (which is likely given that the rest of the 2016 shooting schedule is already filled with pistol/multigun matches).

Having the switch barrel capability would just have been icing on the cake so I could buy a new barrel and headspace it myself without having to send it out to a gunsmith each time. Most of the popular gunsmiths are quoting me 10-14 weeks for a rechambering at the moment.

A system with a barrel nut is a big attraction for exactly that reason. It isn't always about the money. Lost time is a cost, as well.

[BitchinCamaro]

Yup. Assuming everything came in on time I thought I could have a trued receiver/bolt and a remmage-type switch barrel in my hands and shooting within a month.

Plus, there wouldn't be the additional downtime of shipping it off to a smith with each rebarrel. If I'm averaging shop services correctly, it's saving $250 to $300 with every barrel swap.

Wait times for a Ruger Precision Rifle don't seem to be coming down. Plus I think they're fugly.

There has to be something obvious that I'm missing about the PTG/remmage combo, otherwise someone else would have done it already!

Edited December 1, 2015 by BitchinCamaro

[JonKC]

You can YouTube "Long range shooters of Utah" and you will find some custom built Tikkas kicking butt. IMHO the Tikka action is superior to a Rem 700 for a custom build.

I've considered purchasing a PTG action then sending it to LRI but have always been swayed by the negative reviews of dealing with PTG

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[BitchinCamaro]

I think in my head there is a hierarchy of accuracy and mechanical butteriness starting from factory/hunting to-> Semi-Custom to-> Full Custom.

My Tikka's bolt slides smooth for a factory action, but it's not exactly fitted to the raceways. Not that surgically tight bolt interfaces are the end all-be all indicator of performance, but it would suggest that there are general tolerances all around for any factory action.

A remmage combo would circumvent sending the action to a gunsmith entirely, and your leadtime is short if a barrel maker agrees to the threading.

I agree that the Tikka would be a superior action to start with, but for the price it's not comparable to the PTG set for the same reasons starting out with a 700 donor doesn't make sense to me.

If I assume that PTG's shipping department is just guilty of being a little dumb instead of something like, sacrificing babies, I can put that out of my mind for the moment to ask why I'm still left wondering from a purely mechanical standpoint as to why the PTG combo isn't GTG.

Edited December 1, 2015 by BitchinCamaro

[warpspeed]

PTG is certainly an interesting place.

If they don't have it in stock, there is no telling when it will ship. Not for those in a hurry nor impatient.

[JonKC]

I mentioned Tikka because you can have a smith build you a rifle with a Bartlein barrel, rail, trigger work, brake, X-ray chassis for around $2500 vs the $1900 mentioned in your first post.

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[DWFAN]

There are about 3 people you want to talk to at PTG.. the rest.. well.. good luck.

Did PTG recut the threads on the action? If so.. a Rem prefit may not work. Depends on how much was cut. Just a thought there.

[BitchinCamaro]

Depends on how much was cut. Just a thought there.

Ahhh. I didn't think about that. I suspect that they chased them on a tap mandrel instead of taking a recut to the next class. OS threads would probably be listed in the description.

[ShooterSteve]

My parts total was around $2500 if I remember correctly. Stiller tac 30, Kreiger, McMillan A5, Timney and PTG dbm. Yes, the stiller does cost a little more. I would have gone with the PTG action in a minute if they had their act together, and it would have saved me a few dollars. I do think the PTG red and grey stock is gorgeous and would have loved to do that build, but they just did not have their act together at all. I have read a ton of good stuff about the Tikka over on the hide. I have a Remmy 700 LA for sale in the classifieds if you are interested.

[Birddog6424]

I have a blueprinted PT&G action. Just got it a few weeks ago.

I clarified that they had the donor actions in stock before ordering. They acknowledged their past short-comings and assured me they had multitudes of short action 700s in stock. After placing my order, mine arrived at the gunshop I work at in 9 weeks.

It's very good quality. I lathered it up in Dykem to check the fit of the lugs and races. Lock up was perfect with full contact on the lugs. The tolerance on the races feels smooth and quite honestly, perfect.

Just waiting on my barrel from Black Hole Weaponry which is still about a week or two out, then the whole thing goes into an XLR Evolution chassis, with Seekins 20 MoA base and 34mm rings, topped off with a Burris XTR II in mil/mil with the SCR.

[BitchinCamaro]

I have a blueprinted PT&G action. Just got it a few weeks ago...

I lathered it up in Dykem to check the fit of the lugs and races. Lock up was perfect with full contact on the lugs. The tolerance on the races feels smooth and quite honestly, perfect.

Nice. I can almost hear that bolt glide in the action and it makes me second guess not buying one. Do you have any pictures?

9 weeks though. I checked and it sounds like they have a bunch of untouched R700s in stock, and they true and match bolts to them per order instead of keeping blueprinted actions in stock. Threads are "cleaned up" on a lathe, but not necessarily cut oversize. Apparently the factory threads leave a lot left to be cut without inducing slop.

I put my parts order in last Friday and I got a processing Email yesterday. Hopefully I won't have to wait as long as your FFL transfer.

For anyone else thinking about a budget build, Stockys has a Vblock chassis stock for $200. Add a DBM for $120 and you'll have a mag-ready rig for less than half the price of the Xray.

So a hypothetical competition build could be at around $1600 (w/o glass or mags), and have easy switch-barrel features.

[MrBorland]

PTG is a company that will drive a lot of people insane. I know people who have ordered things, and after months of not coming in, they called and cancelled the order only to be charged with an order cancellation fee when PTG didn't even have the parts yet.

I'm late to the party, but I went down this PTG hole, thinking what kickin' deal it was.

They said 8-12 weeks, and charged my credit card in full when I ordered (including shipping). When 30 weeks came and they continued to hum and haw (when I could actually get someone on the phone), I cancelled the order.

I also insisted they not charge me the cancellation fee, to which they balked, but said ok. All this was on a Monday. Friday, with no refund on my on-line statement, I simply called the credit card company to dispute the charge. Miraculously, they called me first thing Monday morning to tell me my credit card was fully credited. Thanks, Visa!!

In the end, I went with a Borden R700 action because I already had the barrel and stock. It's a fine rifle indeed, but all things considered, if I had to to it again, I'd give serious consideration to building on a Tikka action.

Birddog got lucky because they finally had them in stock. He might've gotten mine, or someone else's who cancelled.

[BitchinCamaro]

Wow. I thought 9 weeks was bad.

I ordered my parts on the 29th, which included tools and off the shelf items.

I received my parts today. Between now and the 29th, I received an "order is processing" email and 3 more random purchase orders.

Everything was packed great, and the bottom metal looks like it was a solid buy for Black Friday. The PTG-made parts had a separate invoice in duplicate, so the box was stuffed with a total of 4 duplicate invoices.

They messed up my magazine order and sent me the wrong parts. None of the parts have barcodes or inventory SKUs.

Hopefully getting the right magazines won't be an issue, but it's still a PITA.

It's clear from the crazy Email system, invoices, and lack of inventory checks that they need to hire a logistics shipping consultant.

None of this really pertains to the quality of their blueprinted receivers, but if ,like me, Amazon Prime is your new normal then you're not going to enjoy the experience.

[charms]

I've built many rifles on the Tikka action. The only problem is that you need to buy the whole gun only to use the action and trigger. The difference in price of the complete build comes down to the difference between a custom action and trigger and the stock Tikka rifle. In other words a Defiance action and a Jewel or Timney Calvin Elite is going to cost around $1200. A complete Tikka rifle is around $650 for stainless steel. So the difference in your custom build is $550. If you already own a Tikka I would use it. If not I would get a custom action. Another problem is the aftermarket parts availability vs the Remington style action. Just my two cents.

[BitchinCamaro]

I kind of like the stock Tikka as is for hunting, so if I really wanted to build off a Tikka action, I would just buy a used Tikka. It sort of goes back to my reasoning as to why the PTG receivers were such a great deal.

I'm currently in my own PTG customer service black hole at the moment. I think they make some great products, but their shipping and inventory systems are a nightmare. I've reached that point of calling every day for the past week to rectify their parts mistake, and while everyone's been friendly, it's pretty clear that they can't get act together.

[charms]

I keep hearing that from folks on this forum but I personally haven't had any problems with them. I have probably 20 PTG reamers and assorted range rods and head space guages and have used their BDL bottom metal and Stealth bottom metal for numerous builds. I think the only time they ever messed up an order was sending me the wrong head space guage for a 243LBC build. They took care of it promptly. I am sorry to hear other people are having issues and I hope you get yours resolved.