More E3 Load Data

[ZackJones]

Before I post all of the load data (there's a lot of it) I do have a question for those that are more experienced with e3 than I am. What would you consider the max charge for a 115g plated bullet? I'm looking to make 130 - 135 Power Factor to use for a steel challenge open minor gun. The gun is a Gen 4 Glock 17 with KKM barrel and Carver 2-port comp. (Yes I know we don't have a power factor in steel challenge but I still want to make minor for USPSA matches) (Yes #2 - I did search before asking the above question). Here's the chrono results from today. All runs where done with Gen 4 Glock 17, stock barrel. Chrono approximately 10 feet down range. 10-shot strings where used for each run. Mixed brass and e3 used for all of my loads. Today I only tested to see if the load would make minor power factor. Once I have loads that will I'll do group testing.

Baseline - Winchester White Box 117g Target Ammo

Avg Velocity - 1194.5

Std Dev - 19.7

ES - 66

Avg PF - 137

Bayou 95g with 4.1g @ 1.060

Avg Velocity - 1228.8

Std Dev - 22.9

ES - 77

Avg PF - 116

I knew this wouldn't make minor but I had them loaded so I figured I would test them.

These next runs are just tests I did because I had the ammo loaded and on hand.

Blue Bullets 115 with 3.5g @ 1.135

Avg Velocity - 1080.5

Std Dev - 9.2

ES - 31

Avg PF - 124

Blue Bullets 125 with 3.5g @ 1.135

Avg Velocity - 1068.2

Std Dev - 15.1

ES - 41

Avg PF - 133

Blue Bullets 147 with 3.0g @ 1.130

Avg Velocity - 923.1

Std Dev - 14

ES - 52

Avg PF - 135

Bayou 135 with 3.5g @ 1.125

Avg Velocity - 1005

Std Dev - 14.7

ES - 48

Avg PF - 135

For the next 3 runs I used Xtreme 115g

Xtreme 115 with 3.8g @ 1.135

Avg Velocity - 1037.2

Std Dev - 13.7

ES - 39

Avg PF - 119

Xtreme 115 with 3.9g @ 1.135

Avg Velocity - 1047.1

Std Dev - 11.3

ES - 38

Avg PF - 120

Xtreme 115 with 4.0g @ 1.135

Avg Velocity - 1037.1

Std Dev - 10.2

ES - 35

Avg PF - 123

(it was interesting to see how the numbers closed up as the powder charge increased)

My next experiment was to use Xtreme 115 with 4.0g but vary the OAL.

1.140

Avg Velocity - 1076.3

Std Dev - 11.2

ES - 36

Avg PF - 123

1.145

Avg Velocity - 1068.2

Std Dev - 14.2

ES - 39

Avg PF - 122

1.150

Avg Velocity - 1063.9

Std Dev - 12.6

ES - 47

Avg PF - 122

1.155

Avg Velocity - 1066.5

Std Dev - 12.4

ES - 42

Avg PF - 122

Next I moved on to Xtreme 124 and worked up loads from 3.5 to 4.0. OAL was 1.135 for all loads.

3.5g

Avg Velocity - 975.2

Std Dev - 10.5

ES - 33

Avg PF - 120

3.6g

Avg Velocity - 989.8

Std Dev - 13.1

ES - 33

Avg PF - 122

3.7g

Avg Velocity - 1008.8

Std Dev - 9.2

ES - 28

Avg PF - 125

3.8g

Avg Velocity - 1013.9

Std Dev - 10.1

ES - 33

Avg PF - 128

3.9g

Avg Velocity - 1033.1

Std Dev - 11.4

ES - 31

Avg PF 128

*Every shot made minor

4.0g

Avg Velocity - 1044.1

Std Dev - 8.2

ES - 27

Avg PF - 129

*Every shot made minor. This will be my new production load with the Xtreme 124 bullets.

[JRM83]

I don't have any experience with a 115 or 124, but with a 147 I made power factor at 2.8gr and hit the danger zone around 3.1gr

[MarkCO]

I get 130 PF with 124 Xtreme hp using 3.5 grains in my M&P.

I have gone to 3.7 with 147s without issue. For 115 plated, it is going to be above 4.0, but I am not going to list what I think an actual max load might be.

[ZackJones]

I don't have any experience with a 115 or 124, but with a 147 I made power factor at 2.8gr and hit the danger zone around 3.1gr

What kind of signs did you see that told you the load was too hot? That's one area where I have virtually no experience.

I get 130 PF with 124 Xtreme hp using 3.5 grains in my M&P.

I have gone to 3.7 with 147s without issue. For 115 plated, it is going to be above 4.0, but I am not going to list what I think an actual max load might be.

The extra barrel length helps, I'm sure. I understand why you would hesitate to post what you would consider the max load. I plant to try 4.1 and 4.2 next and see where that puts me. I may have to give up on the 115 and go with 124.

That may be what I do anyway that way I could have a single load for either gun. Testing with the open gun once I get the barrel and slide back will help me decide.

[dave33]

I have gone up to 3.4gr e3 under a 147gr coated lead bullet, got low 140's power factor out of my XDM 5.25 and was a pretty accurate load. Most people refer to very flattened primers, or primers that the firing pin indention is starting to push back out, or is poking out like a reverse indentation as signs of over pressure. By that time you are probably way over pressure anyway, I've heard from old wise reloaders that by the time you can see bad things happening with the primer its already too late. Of course this is all internet stuff so keep in mind the source.

Have you tried the Bayou 105 FP? I got a couple sample packs of those the other day and was very pleased with the results accuracy wise. They may take the place of my favored steel challenge load using 100gr Ibejihead SWC's. Should leave plenty of room for powder in the case to work the comp.

[ZackJones]

Have you tried the Bayou 105 FP? I got a couple sample packs of those the other day and was very pleased with the results accuracy wise. They may take the place of my favored steel challenge load using 100gr Ibejihead SWC's. Should leave plenty of room for powder in the case to work the comp.

I have some 105's on the shelf. I'll work up some loads for testing this coming weekend. Thanks for the idea.

[JRM83]

I saw flattened primers and very harsh recoil at 3.1gr. I hit 130PF at 2.8gr so I can't imagine what the velocity would be if I stuffed 3.7gr behind that thing. I can't imagine what it would do to my pistol either.

[d_striker]

I saw flattened primers and very harsh recoil at 3.1gr. I hit 130PF at 2.8gr so I can't imagine what the velocity would be if I stuffed 3.7gr behind that thing. I can't imagine what it would do to my pistol either.

I've shot about 10k rounds using 3.3gr e3 with a 147 plated bullet at 1.130" with no issues. I definitely would not personally go above that.

[MarkCO]

I saw flattened primers and very harsh recoil at 3.1gr. I hit 130PF at 2.8gr so I can't imagine what the velocity would be if I stuffed 3.7gr behind that thing. I can't imagine what it would do to my pistol either.

Something is wrong there. I have tested over multiple chronographs (including match chronos 3 times), and with a pressure transducer against known loads, not close to max in any of my loads I use, or have posted. Flattened primers is above proof loads, which are above +P loads. Out of three different 5" barrels, 2.8 grains with 2 different 147 JHPs does not make minor. If you have flat primers at 2.8, 3.1 is still too much. Please check your charge weight with a different scale or something.

What barrel and bullet are you using?

Edited September 29, 2015 by MarkCO

[JRM83]

I saw flattened primers and very harsh recoil at 3.1gr. I hit 130PF at 2.8gr so I can't imagine what the velocity would be if I stuffed 3.7gr behind that thing. I can't imagine what it would do to my pistol either.

Something is wrong there. I have tested over multiple chronographs (including match chronos 3 times), and with a pressure transducer against known loads, not close to max in any of my loads I use, or have posted. Flattened primers is above proof loads, which are above +P loads. Out of three different 5" barrels, 2.8 grains with 2 different 147 JHPs does not make minor. If you have flat primers at 2.8, 3.1 is still too much. Please check your charge weight with a different scale or something.

What barrel and bullet are you using?

I had no issues at 2.8gr, 3.1 is where I got concerned. To clarify, at 3.1 the primers weren't totally flat, that's where the edges on the primers started to show signs of flattening. There's still a tiny of headroom before they go to danger flat. There's no way they would make it to 3.7gr.

I was shooting a 147 BB&B from a CZ SP01 Shadow.

Edit - got my own data wrong. 3.2 is where I got concerned. I posted my chrono results on e3 with this gun and barrel combination over the summer. Here is the copy/paste from that:

Alliant E3

2.6gr - 829, 858

2.8gr - 884, 884, 882, 889

3.0gr - 906, 905, 925

3.2gr - 953, 932, 938 ***primers were on the ragged edge of pressure here. Still just a smidge of rounding on the primers, but this is the line.

3.4gr - DANGER WILL ROBINSON! DANGER!

Edited September 29, 2015 by JRM83

[WImedic]

I am using 4.3 gr of E3 on top of cci primers with 124gr berrys plated bullets. OAL of 1.185" and my chrono is giving me 1030fps as an average. which comes to a power factor of 127. I have had no signs of pressure problems or cycling issues. Running a m&p pro with 5" kkm barrel, and this load was the most accurate in my pistol. Shoots about 1.25" groups at 75 feet off a sand bag.

[MarkCO]

I am using 4.3 gr of E3 on top of cci primers with 124gr berrys plated bullets. OAL of 1.185" and my chrono is giving me 1030fps as an average. which comes to a power factor of 127. I have had no signs of pressure problems or cycling issues. Running a m&p pro with 5" kkm barrel, and this load was the most accurate in my pistol. Shoots about 1.25" groups at 75 feet off a sand bag.

With X-Treme 124 HP at 1.140" and 0.8 grains less powder, I get 130 PF, 2" group size at 25, also from a M&P Pro with a KKM.

Edited April 26, 2016 by MarkCO

[Wtf]

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[Wtf]

This title was in responce to trying to register for your forum.wtf