230 Zero plated ball issue on LNL AP - Help

[jsg]

This will not be short.

I have been reloading 45 ACP for about 30 years. I have loaded tons of lead and some plated. I have only loaded jacketed bullets one time (3000 Armscor 124 ball in 9mm). I now have 2000 Zero 45 ACP 230 jacketed ball and am beginning to make ammo. The issue seems to be seating. Over 15% my completed ammo will not gage without being run through a Lee FCD. Even after going through the FCD, the crimp has to be down to about .469 to correctly gage in the Dillon 45 ACP gage.

230 Zero jacketed ball
5.2 HP-38
CCI or Win LP primer
Mixed brass (wet tumbled)
1.265 OAL

Process:
1) Deprime on Rock Chucker with Lee universal depriming die
2) Wet tumble for 4 hours and dry
3) Resize on Rock Chucker using RCBS carbide resizing die
4) Check every piece of brass in Dillon case gage
5) Prime in RCBS hand primer

Move to Hornady LNL AP
Position 1 - empty
Position 2 - RCBS belling die
Position 3 - LNL powder dropper
Position 4 - Dillon bullet seating die
Position 5 - RCBS seat and crimp die

6) Process brass through LNL to bell, add powder, seat bullet, and crimp.
7) Measure OAL and gage every complete round.

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The issue: Bullets will not drop in and out of gage correctly. Most stop about 2mm short of falling all the way in. If I apply pressure and force the round all the way in flush and then push it out with a pen, there is a very noticeable shiny ring on about 1/6th the circumference of the case right at the bottom of the bullet (in the case).

This indicates to me the bullet is not seating straight. Seems it is slightly cocked in the case? This is also making me crimp excessively (.469) to make it gage correctly. I am also noticeing excessive brass shavings and the crimp die starts grabbing the case such that it takes excessive force to lower the ram.

I have tried,
1) Flaring more (like I would for lead)
2) Moving everything back one station in the press and leaving station 5 unused
3) Using a different LNL adapter for the crimp die and seating die
4) Using a Lee FCD instead of the RCBS crimp die
5) Being very particular that the bullet is almost perfectly aligned before being seated by the Dillon die
6) Using a Redding seating die
7) I measured the diameter of 5 random bullets. They were all .451 so it does not seem the bullets are out of spec

Last night I even tried belling and dropping powder for 20 rounds on the LNL then using the RCBS seat and crimp die for 10 and the Lee FCD for 10 on my Rock Chucker to finish the loads. They still had problems like I was getting on the LNL.

My only thought is that perhaps I am seating them too deep. 230 ball seems to be between 1.270 and 1.273 in my manuals. The Winchester I measured was 1.273

At the suggestion of others, I am going to pull the Dillon seating stem and see how well it fits the bullet tonight.

Someone tell me what is going wrong here? I really wanted rip my press off the bench and throw it in the back yard last night.

Note: Pictures of the bad rounds - I tried to take a few pics but the shiny ring was not showing well so I gave up.

[tires2burn]

If the case sizes the first time you might be bulging the case in your loading sequence. It sounds like your crimping with two different dies. Try not crimping and then gage.

[BlueOvalBandit]

I had that problem on lead, if the bullet didn't seat perfectly square I got an ever so tiny bulge. At the time I had all Hornady dies, YMMV but I added a Lyman M-die in place of the Hornady expander at the recommendation of others and it helped bullets get a straighter start when seating. Problem went away for me with the M-die. If you load lead, I definitely recommend it.

Edited December 10, 2014 by BlueOvalBandit

[jsg]

While these are jacketed bullets, the M Die seems useful. Even if that is not really the issue, I think I will have to get one.

[noylj]

The cartridge or round will not case gage. The bullet is that shiny thing that you seated in the case.

The solution to chambering problems is always the same:

Take the barrel out of the gun. Drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth..

Remove and inspect the round:

1) scratches on bullet--COL is too long

2) scratches on case mouth--insufficient crimp

3) scratches just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case

4) scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit

5) scratches on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.

Edited December 11, 2014 by noylj

[jsg]

I understand the value of just running them through the barrel of the gun intended to fire them. However I have one revolver, a 220, and 3 1911 that will be shooting them. That makes it a bit unreasonable to test them in each gun.

I also shoot these in IDPA and USPSA so a malfunction due to a bad reload is not something I am willing to accept. I have enough skill shortcomings to overcome. I don't need to add equipment issues.

Edited December 11, 2014 by jsg

[jsg]

Update:

I did a few things at once so I cannot say with 100% certainty were the issue was but I am nearly certain the issue was my Dillon seating die. I went back to the Redding seating die, cleaned my flare die, cleaned my shell plate, cleaned under my shell plate, and put a new spring on the shell plate. The issue seems to have been resolved. I suppose it may have been my old worn-out retention spring, but I think the seating die was failing to align the bullet completely.