Another 223 reloading question

[surgdog]

OK, guys I have read a lot on 223 reloading progressively and taking advice on this forum have decided on a two head set up on my 550 for decap and trim with RT1200 and then use Lyman M die for slight neck flare and clean up of trim followed by loading set up as usual on my 650.

I wanted to set up the 550 for prep like this:

Station 1) Lee universal decaying die

Station 2) RT 1200

Station 3 or 4) Lyman M die

Two problems occurred, first, the RT 1200 won't fit in station 2 with the decapping die in station 1. I even tried a regular sizing/decapping die. Not enough real estate. So I tried the trimmer in station 3 then I ran out of room again for the Lyman die in station 4.

Second, even with the decapper in station 1 and trimmer in station 3 with nothing in station 2 or 4 when I try to attach vacuum to trimmer the pin that holds toolhead in place is in the way.

I guess the practical answer is to do two 650 heads but my heart was set to use the 550 for prep and the 650 for loading. The way it is now I can't use the Lyman die on the 550 prep toolhead and I'm concerned about the toolhead pin not being in place and possibly messing with alignment.

Any suggestions to my dilemma?

Thanks,

mk

[12glocks]

I have the RT 1500 and I cannot fit it 2 additional dies on a 650 toolhead. I tried different brands of dies to make this work unsuccessfully, so I have a second toolhead for cleaning up the necks. I believe I have seen guys set up the RT 1200 trimmers with 2 addition dies on a 650 toolhead but I would think the 550 toolhead would be too small.

Just for the sake of discussion, I think the 650 with a case feeder is a processing beast, one of its true strengths. You have to handle the brass so much more on the 550.

[Henny]

When I processed brass on my 650 I had the trimmer in station 3 and used a nail to replace the tool head pin. I turned down an oversized nail and cut it off so there was enough exposed to I could get it out with a pliers / multi tool.

[surgdog]

When I processed brass on my 650 I had the trimmer in station 3 and used a nail to replace the tool head pin. I turned down an oversized nail and cut it off so there was enough exposed to I could get it out with a pliers / multi tool.

I thought about that after I posted. Probably a finishing nail placed to the correct depth and then bent would work.

Thanks.

[Raydee38]

I don't think the M die is needed. What I do is put the Dillon sizing/decapping die with expander in station 1 and the trimmer in station 3. I back the die out in station 1 so that it just decapps, expands and barely sizes the case. The rest of the sizing is done by the trimmer die. I have never needed to use the M die doing it this way.

[PkSpawn]

I just played around with this after reading your topic. I put the rt1200 and an RCBS decap/sizing die on the 550. I only used 1 pin to secure the toolhead, that seemed to work fine, no alignment issues. But I only ran through about a dozen or so pieces. The forces are up and down, so I doubt it would slide out or move with at least 1 pin in.

I'm not familiar with the M die. From my understanding it is used to flare the neck cause the trim die makes it so small/tight. Since the brass is already processed, why couldn't you use the M die on station 1 of the 650? , M die, powder, seater, crimp. (not famliar with the 650).

[surgdog]

I just played around with this after reading your topic. I put the rt1200 and an RCBS decap/sizing die on the 550. I only used 1 pin to secure the toolhead, that seemed to work fine, no alignment issues. But I only ran through about a dozen or so pieces. The forces are up and down, so I doubt it would slide out or move with at least 1 pin in.

I'm not familiar with the M die. From my understanding it is used to flare the neck cause the trim die makes it so small/tight. Since the brass is already processed, why couldn't you use the M die on station 1 of the 650? , M die, powder, seater, crimp. (not famliar with the 650).

I thought about putting the M die in Station 1 in the 650 but my plan was to tumble the brass after prepping to remove lube and I had planned to use another Lee decapping die in Station 1 of the load toolhead to clear media from the flash hole.

I got the idea for the M die from rjacobs on this forum who appears to be very experienced with 223 reloading but it may not be necessary. As I understand it the trimmer die makes the neck tight and the M die just barely flares it so the bullet will slip in without shaving and also cleans the neck up so additional chambering doesn't need to be done.

From what I understand from reading all the topics and what is influencing my die set up plan is not to use a sizing die in prep toolhead because the trimmer die is a full resize and you want the case to be tight in the trimmer die for consistent trimming.

I think to do what I want to I will need to use two 650 toolhead instead on the 550 for prep.

[tastic]

I just played around with this after reading your topic. I put the rt1200 and an RCBS decap/sizing die on the 550. I only used 1 pin to secure the toolhead, that seemed to work fine, no alignment issues. But I only ran through about a dozen or so pieces. The forces are up and down, so I doubt it would slide out or move with at least 1 pin in.

I'm not familiar with the M die. From my understanding it is used to flare the neck cause the trim die makes it so small/tight. Since the brass is already processed, why couldn't you use the M die on station 1 of the 650? , M die, powder, seater, crimp. (not famliar with the 650).

I thought about putting the M die in Station 1 in the 650 but my plan was to tumble the brass after prepping to remove lube and I had planned to use another Lee decapping die in Station 1 of the load toolhead to clear media from the flash hole.

I got the idea for the M die from rjacobs on this forum who appears to be very experienced with 223 reloading but it may not be necessary. As I understand it the trimmer die makes the neck tight and the M die just barely flares it so the bullet will slip in without shaving and also cleans the neck up so additional chambering doesn't need to be done.

From what I understand from reading all the topics and what is influencing my die set up plan is not to use a sizing die in prep toolhead because the trimmer die is a full resize and you want the case to be tight in the trimmer die for consistent trimming.

I think to do what I want to I will need to use two 650 toolhead instead on the 550 for prep.

You may want to have the Lyman carbide neck expander insert on station 1 of the 550/650. Amazon sells them for $25ish. The piece fits Lyman and RCBS dies and includes a decapping unit. Be warned: I found the decapping unit more than a little flimsy.

[surgdog]

For the sake of completeness of this thread what I have done is to buy another 650 toolhead so I have one for prep and one for loading. I should now have room for all I want to do which is:

Prep:

Station 1--Lee Universal decapping

Station 3--Trimmer

Station 5--M die

Load:

Station 1--Lee Universal decapper

Station 2--Powder

Station 3--empty or powder check

Station 4--Seater die

Station 5--Crimp

Thanks for everyone for your thoughts.

[AlphaShot]

x

[southwindva]

Why are you using the Lee Universal Decapping die at station #1 in both heads ?

I am using the Dillon sizing /decapping die at station #1 in the prep head and the Lyman M die

at #1 in the load head. Using MR Bullet Feeder at #3. Seems to be working good.

[southwindva]

I should clarify that I am using the Lyman M die loading because of the MBF . I couldn't keep the bullet on the case as it advanced to the seating station.

That little bit of case mouth expansion did the trick.

[surgdog]

Thanks, Southwindva.

To answer your question about the Lee die in station one in both toolheads is this. From what I have read the Dillon trimmer die is a full length resizing die that holds the case firmly for trimming with the Dillon 1200 trimmer. Other posts imply that using a full length resize in station one of the prep toolhead may make the case a little loose in the trimmer die and lead to inconsistency in the OAL. Many posts do as you do but only partially resize in station one to 75% or so to make sure the trimmer die holds the case firmly for trimming.

The reason for a Lee die in station one of the loading toolhead is that I tumble between toolheads and the Lee removes any media from the premier hole.

One thing I have learned from researching the topic is that there are many ways to reload 223 and most folks have worked out their method they are happy with.

I do have some concerns about the Dillon trimmer die not being "tight" enough because I have had problems when single stage reloading 223 with rounds not chambering well in one or two of my ARs. I switched to a full length SB die and that corrected it. I haven't reloaded enough on the 650 to see if that will be a problem.

Hope that explanation helps.

[Raydee38]

I had some issues with the Dillon 223 dies bumping the shoulder on my brass enough to reliably cycle in all my firearms. When I switched to the Rt1200 for sizing and trimming the sizing part of the die must definitely be small base because it will bump the shoulder back way to much of you don't have it adjusted correctly.

[southwindva]

Just thinking. So if I resize to 100% with the Dillon die in the prep head, and only have that case in the shell plate I am ok if I feel resistance with the RT1200 die ?

All of my finished cartridges pass thru my case gauge ok.

That said, I fired some of my first batch from the XL650 this weekend , and had about 5 rounds out of 50 that hung up in the magazine. Had to manually rack to clear that

unfired round. They later loaded and fired fine. Sorry to stray off question.