929 and the Kalifornia Safe List

[Gregg K]

So I was reading an article on the Kalifornia DOJ list of approved guns and did a search by model and didn't see the 929. The article also showed that a S&W revolver that was on the approved list would have an "A" stamped on the bottom of the top strap. The 929 that I have doesn't have an "A" stamped on it. How are guys in Kalifornia getting 929's?

[Pseudonym]

It is basically a work around similar to the single shot exemption that is used for the bottom feeders. The gun basically needs to be converted to single action only, then meet the criteria for barrel length and overall length and it is good to go. Once it has been DROS'd to an owner it can then be converted back to its factory SA/DA.

Here is the CA PC.

12133. (a) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a
single-action revolver that has at least a 5-cartridge capacity
with a barrel length of not less than three inches, and meets
any of the following specifications:
(1) Was originally manufactured prior to 1900 and is a curio or
relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of
Federal Regulations.
(2) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at
least 71/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and
barrel are assembled.
(3) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at
least 71/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and
barrel are assembled and that is currently approved for
importation into the United States pursuant to the provisions
of paragraph (3) of subsection (d) of Section 925 of Title 18
of the United States Code.

[bountyhunter]

Governor Moonbeam just signed the new law that slams that single shot exemption loophole shut.

http://www.calffl.org/2014/07/gov-jerry-brown-signs-new-handgun-ban-ab-1964/

FYI: there were FFl's in Kali who would modify a gun to "comply" with the SSE and then change it back and deliver it to the end customer.

That was the #1 loophole followed closely by the knots at Calguns who were selling HICAP magazine "rebuild kits" by taking the follower out of the hicap magazine and laying it next to the mag tube and selling it as a "kit".

It still amazes me there aren't more of the people here in Kali doing time in prison.

Edited October 1, 2014 by bountyhunter

[MikeRush]

Governor Moonbeam just signed the new law that slams that single shot exemption loophole shut.

http://www.calffl.org/2014/07/gov-jerry-brown-signs-new-handgun-ban-ab-1964/

FYI: there were FFl's in Kali who would modify a gun to "comply" with the SSE and then change it back and deliver it to the end customer.

That was the #1 loophole followed closely by the knots at Calguns who were selling HICAP magazine "rebuild kits" by taking the follower out of the hicap magazine and laying it next to the mag tube and selling it as a "kit".

It still amazes me there aren't more of the people here in Kali doing time in prison.

My understanding is AB 1964 will not affect revolvers, only completed semi automatic pistols. Revos can still be SSE'd next year. There is speculation that frames that have never been a complete pistol may be able to be SSE'd next year as well. I'm not waiting, 5th frame is on the way from PT. I will probably pick up a 929 next year as I don't want to use a 1 in 30 day slot on it.

[bountyhunter]

Maybe it doesn't apply to revolvers.

Just for information: what constitutes a SA conversion for a revolver?

Can you just take the DA sear off the hammer so the DA trigger pull won't lift the hammer?

I never understood how it could be legal for a person who modifies the gun to SA then convert it back to DA/SA and sell to the end user. That sounds to me like manufacturing a firearm which is not on the approved list?

Edited October 1, 2014 by bountyhunter

[pcg]

Not having a dog in this race I am astounded at the bureaucratic craziness of all this. And I live, for goodness sakes, in Massachusetts, where we consider ourselves subject to bizarre gun regs. No one with objectivity crafts any of these regs. As nutty as building codes and zoning regulations.

[Fabzz613]

Maybe it doesn't apply to revolvers.

Just for information: what constitutes a SA conversion for a revolver?

Can you just take the DA sear off the hammer so the DA trigger pull won't lift the hammer?

I never understood how it could be legal for a person who modifies the gun to SA then convert it back to DA/SA and sell to the end user. That sounds to me like manufacturing a firearm which is not on the approved list?

It is not manufacturing it's gun smithing which any type 1 ffl has the ability to do. In the same way as changeing sights or grips. You are selling a customer a single action revolver. They are taking possession leaving the store coming back and wanting it to be modified to shoot in double action.

[Pseudonym]

I am sorry if I caused confusion when I compared the needed conversion to make non-roster revolvers legal to the SSE used for pistols. The governor did sign the bill closing the allowance to convert bottom feeders to single shot and that will be gone as of January. However revolvers are not done as SSE, they are converted to SINGLE ACTION, please see the CA PC I listed above, and you will still be able to use this as a way to get off roster revolvers until they get around to banning them as well. Here is the basic work around in plain English from the CalGuns website.

The law says that single action revolver that holds 5 or more rounds with a barrel of over 3 inches and an overall length of 7.5 inches is roster exempt. This means that any S&W K, L, N or X frame revolver with a barrel over 3 inches can be imported into the state of California once converted to Single Action. I have not verified if a J frame with a 3 inch barrel meets the overall length requirement of 7.5 inches.

Some FFL's will let you convert the revolver yourself in there shop before starting the paperwork negating the need for it to be done out of state (some ffl's will even do the conversion for you for a charge). If you are going to do this you should be proficient in the conversion process. An FFL does not want to be answering your questions on how to put the revolver back together or have your shenanigans stop them from being able to help other customers.

You know what gun you have been lusting after that meets the size requirements, now you just need to find someone selling it that is open minded.

Ultimately you are going to be removing the double action sear from the hammer. This is what causes the hammer to cock back when the trigger is pulled. Once this is removed and the gun is put back together when the trigger is pulled the cylinder will still rotate but the hammer will not cock. However; the gun will still work when the hammer is cocked manually, thus making it single action only. Since removing the double action sear requires a hammer and a punch I have found it best to purchase a used hammer from gunbroker and remove the double action sear myself. Then if someone is going to do the conversion I can ship out the hammer and it becomes a drop in job. Also if you are doing the conversion at a gun shop just dropping in the hammer without the double action sear in place of the stock hammer is much faster. After a few tries the conversion process takes less than 10 minutes and all you need is a screw driver.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Pseudonym

[bountyhunter]

Ultimately you are going to be removing the double action sear from the hammer. This is what causes the hammer to cock back when the trigger is pulled. Once this is removed and the gun is put back together when the trigger is pulled the cylinder will still rotate but the hammer will not cock. However; the gun will still work when the hammer is cocked manually, thus making it single action only. Since removing the double action sear requires a hammer and a punch I have found it best to purchase a used hammer from gunbroker and remove the double action sear myself.

That's why I was asking. If removing the DA sear is all you have to do, the new SW (MIM) revolvers are the choice because the DA sear just pops out of the hammer.

[Ty Hamby]

Revolvers are unaffected by AB1964

AB1964 is legislation for single shot pistols not single action revolvers. Revolvers that are single action are exempt from the roster, and have been for years.

Find a dealer that knows the law and will allow you to pop off the side-plate remove the DA sear (or like many do insert other hammer) and then begin the transfer as a single action revolver. Cylinder rotates with trigger but hammer doesn't cock. Hammer must be manually thumbed for each pull of the trigger.

Any modifications (like converting it to DA) you make to your single action revolver after the transfer is perfectly legal.

Anyone in California who wants a 929 should have no issue obtaining one. Let me know if you need a dealer in the Sacramento area that knows and understands the law and will let you swap out a hammer on your gun before beginning the DROS.

Smith will be adding them to the list one day but who wants to wait?

[Pseudonym]

Smith will be adding them to the list one day but who wants to wait?

I would not be so sure it will be added to the list. Both S&W and Ruger have said they are not going to apply for anymore firearms to be added to the Kalifornia roster. They have also been allowing most all their firearms to drop off the roster without renewing them.

This is what has dropped off this month and is expected to drop off the roster this month just from S&W.

Smith & Wesson 629-6 Trail Boss Unfluted Cyl SKU 163409 / Stainless Steel Revolver 3" .44 Magnum 10/1/2014

Smith & Wesson 629-6 Mountain Gun SKU 163653 / Stainless Steel Revolver 4" .44 Magnum 10/1/2014

Smith & Wesson 17-9 Masterpiece SKU 150477 / Steel Revolver 6" .22 LR 10/1/2014

Smith & Wesson 15-10 (Blued) SKU 150716 / Steel Revolver 4" .38 Special 10/3/2014

Smith & Wesson M&P 340 (Matte Black) SKU 103072 / Alloy; Stainless Steel Revolver 1.87" .357 Magnum 10/3/2014

Smith & Wesson 27-9 (75th Anniversary) SKU 150974 / Steel Revolver 6.5" .357 Magnum 10/12/2014

Smith & Wesson 629-6 Magna Port SKU 163641 / Stainless Steel Revolver 6.5" .44 Magnum 10/13/2014

Smith & Wesson 460 Whitetails Unlimited SKU 150053 / Stainless Steel Revolver 8.37" .460 S&W Magnum 10/13/2014

Smith & Wesson 327 MPR8 SKU 170292 / Alloy, Stainless Steel Revolver 5" .357 Magnum 10/13/2014

Smith & Wesson 327-1 TRR8 SKU 170269 / Alloy, Stainless Steel Revolver 5" .357 Magnum 10/13/2014

Smith & Wesson 460 ES SKU 163463 / Stainless Steel Revolver 2.75" .460 S&W Magnum 10/13/2014

Smith & Wesson 500 ES SKU 163503 / Stainless Steel Revolver 2.75" .500 S&W Magnum 10/13/2014

Smith & Wesson 460 Hunter SKU 170280 / Stainless Steel Revolver 12" .460 S&W Magnum 10/13/2014

Smith & Wesson 36-10 Classic (Color Case) SKU 150193 / Steel Revolver 3" .38 Spl 10/15/2014

Smith & Wesson 36-10 Classic (Nickel) SKU 150198 / Steel Revolver 3" .38 Spl 10/15/2014

Smith & Wesson 22-4 Classic (Color Case) SKU 150188 / Steel Revolver 5.5" .45 ACP 10/15/2014

Smith & Wesson 22-4 Classic (Nickel) SKU 150189 / Steel Revolver 5.5" .45 ACP 10/15/2014

Smith & Wesson 460 XVR SKU 163460 / Stainless Steel Revolver 8.37" .460 S&W Magnum 10/21/2014

Smith & Wesson 25-15 (Blue) SKU 150256 / Steel Revolver 6.5" .45 Colt 10/22/2014

Smith & Wesson 67-5 F Comp (Matte Black) SKU 170324 / Stainless Steel Revolver 3" .38 Spl 10/22/2014

Smith & Wesson 637-2 Power Port (Matte Black) SKU 170327 / Alloy, Stainless Steel Revolver 2.125" .38 Spl 10/22/2014

Smith & Wesson 351C (Black) SKU103351 / Aluminum Alloy Revolver 1.875" .22 WMR 10/24/2014

Smith & Wesson 629-6 Birdsong Finish SKU 170230 / Stainless Steel Revolver 7.5" .44 Magnum 10/24/2014

Smith & Wesson SD9 VE (Two-Tone) SKU 123903 / Stainless Steel; Polymer Pistol 4.00" 9mm 10/24/2014

Smith & Wesson 22A-1 Real Tree APG SKU 107442 / Alloy, Stainless Steel Pistol 5.5" .22 LR 10/28/2014

Smith & Wesson 629-6 Stealth Hunter (Matte Black) SKU 170323 / Stainless Steel Revolver 7.5" .44 Magnum 10/28/2014

Smith & Wesson 24-6 (Nickel) SKU 150259 / Steel Revolver 6.5" .44 Spl 10/28/2014

Smith & Wesson 27-9 (Nickel) SKU 150342 / Steel Revolver 6.5" .357 Magnum 10/28/2014

Smith & Wesson 386NG (Matte Black) SKU 163424 / Stainless Steel, Alloy Revolver 2.5" .357 Magnum 10/28/2014

Smith & Wesson 27-9 (Nickel) SKU 150340 / Steel Revolver 4" .357 Magnum 10/28/2014

Edited October 12, 2014 by Pseudonym

[Ty Hamby]

Those are old models. All the new models will have an "A" after the model numbers. while Smith has announced there desire to drop pistols from the list the revolvers are continuing to be added. Many Smith revolvers have been added each month and will continue in the months ahead. Just looking at the recently dropped does not tell the whole story. The dropped list is huge because many models numbers have been replaced. Feel free to continue to stay updated with the new numbering scheme. Notice many of the part numbers you claim as being droped appear on the recently added list now ending with an "A". Other models being dropped have not existed in production for years and need to go. Why pay the yearly fees for a gun you no longer make? While I agree mith many that the list needs to go (and soon may), I continue to see smith adding guns currently in production. Here is a list of revetly added guns. http://oag.ca.gov/sites/oag.ca.gov/files/pdfs/firearms/recentlyadded.pdf

[Pseudonym]

OK thanks Ty, hopefully the 929 will be added to the list. Checking the CA DOJ list and what S&W has added it would definitely appear they are not going to be offering as many revolvers as they have in the past. I know with autoloaders and the micro-stamping requirement any new models(autoloader) are not going to appear on the list.