txaggie Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I imported both copies of the rulebooks and used a difference program to find the differences. Below are the significant changes (not spelling or grammar). I don't have the page numbers but they go in order from front of the book to the back and should be pretty easy to identify. Enjoy ===================================================== OLD Refers to version released on 1/5/05 NEW Refers to version released on 1/17/05 OLD C 16. On cardboard targets, if the outside diameter of the shot’s grease ring touches any part of a scoring line perforation, it will count for the value of the highest scoring zone. Radial tears in the paper exceeding two bullet diameters will not count. This normally applies to moving targets fired upon at extreme angles. It can also apply to targets in which a metal target stand has been hit. NEW C 16. On cardboard targets, if the outside diameter of the shot’s grease ring touches any part of a scoring line perforation, it will count for the value of the highest scoring zone (radial tears around the bullet hole do not count for scoring purposes). Elongated bullet holes in the paper exceeding two bullet diameters will not count. This normally applies to moving targets fired upon at extreme angles. It can also apply to targets in which a metal target stand has been hit. OLD Stability of Equipment Rules Equipment rule changes will only be reviewed every two (2) years. Any equipment rule changes will go into effect twelve (12) months after approval. NEW Stability of Equipment Rule This rule applies to firearms only; specifically any rule change that would disallow a firearm previously approved for IDPA competition. Equipment rule changes will only be reviewed every two (2) years. Any equipment rule changes will go into effect twelve (12) months after approval. OLD CoF 8. No target shall be located so that it can be hit by shooting through another target. NEW CoF 8. No threat target shall be located so that it can be hit by shooting through another threat target. OLD CoF 11. Any stage or string of fire requiring a minimum of twelve (12) rounds must have a reload for all divisions. NEW CoF 11. Any stage or string of fire requiring a minimum of twelve (12) rounds must have a mandatory reload for all divisions. Firing only eleven (11) shots and failing to do a reload for competitive advantage, will result in an FTDR. OLD CoF 13. Use concealment for scenario stages. Exception: Police or military officers when using actual duty gear. NEW CoF 13. Use concealment for scenario stages when appropriate Exception: Police or military officers when using actual duty gear. OLD NOTE – not in older version NEW n. Any time a loaded ammunition feeding device (magazine, speedloader or full moon clip) is dropped from the carrier during a course of fire. OLD B. Be double action (when the trigger is pulled, the hammer/striker is cocked and then released). NEW B. Be double action, double action only, or safe action (when the trigger is pulled, the hammer/striker is cocked and then released). OLD 1. Full length dust covers. NEW 1. Full length dust covers of carbon or stainless steel. OLD 2. Full length dust covers. NEW 2. Full length dust covers of carbon or stainless steel. OLD A. Be any revolver of 9mm (9x19) caliber or larger. 23 B. Have a barrel length of 4” or less (as measured from the front of the cylinder). C. Have a maximum unloaded weight of 42 oz. NEW A. Be any revolver of .38 caliber (.357” or larger) or larger utilizing rimmed or rimless cartridges. B. Have a barrel length of 4.2” or less (as measured from the front of the cylinder). C. Have a maximum unloaded weight of 50 oz. OLD A. Any revolver of .38 Special Caliber or larger that utilizes ammunition with a rimmed case and is not reloaded with a full moon clip. B. Barrel length of 4” or less (as measured from the front of the cylinder). NEW A. Any revolver of .38 Caliber (.357” or larger) or larger that utilizes ammunition with a rimmed case and is not reloaded with a full moon clip. B. Barrel length of 4.2” or less (as measured from the front of the cylinder). OLD NOTE – not present in older version NEW ALL VERSIONS OF THE IWB STYLE HOLSTER ARE APPROVED FOR IDPA COMPETITION. OLD NOTE – not present in older version NEW ALL VERSIONS OF THE PANCAKE STYLE HOLSTER ARE APPROVED FOR IDPA COMPETITION. OLD D. Must carry the firearm in a neutral (vertical) or muzzle rear cant, but have no adjustable cant backpieces. NEW D. Must carry the firearm in a neutral (vertical) or muzzle rear cant, but have no adjustable cant backpieces. Holster cant that is adjustable by removing bolts and repositioning the backpiece is allowed. Exception: IWB style holsters do not have to meet this particular criterion. OLD H. May not position the firearm where the breech face (autos) or rear of the cylinder (revolvers) is below the center of the belt. NO drop loops are permitted.³ Holsters for females may position the breech face of a pistol or rear of the cylinder of a revolver up to 1 ½” below the center of the belt. NEW H. May not position the firearm where the breech face (autos) or rear of the cylinder (revolvers) is below the center of the belt. NO drop loops are permitted.³ Holsters for females may position the breech face of a pistol or rear of the cylinder of a revolver up to 1 ½” below the center of the belt. NOTE: IWB style holsters are exempt from this criterion. OLD NOTE – not present in old version NEW NOTE: Modification of current holsters and ammunition carriers to meet IDPA criteria is acceptable. OLD E. Muzzle forward or ‘on the belt’ adjustable cant holsters. NEW E. Muzzle forward or ‘on the belt’ adjustable cant holsters. Those that allow the cant to be adjusted by the shooter while the holster is on the belt are not allowed. NOTE: Holsters with an adjustable cant via removal of bolts and repositioning of the backpiece are approved if set for neutral or muzzle rear cant. OLD D. Cover a minimum of 50% of the magazine tube. Base pads are not considered in this measurement. E. Hold the magazine in a vertical (90° to the ground) position on the belt, no forward or rear cant. F. Be worn in a belt location that will position the front edge of the carrier behind the centerline of the body. G. Carry no more than two spare magazines on the belt. NEW D. Cover 2” of the magazine as measured from the top of the cartridge rim down the back flat of the magazine tube. 35 2” measurement Front face of magazine covered Not Acceptable E. Cover the entire front face of the portion of the magazine inside the carrier. The front face is defined as the side of the tube away from the shooter’s body. F. Hold the magazine within 10 degrees of vertical (80-100° to the ground) position on the belt, no substantial forward or rear cant. G. Be worn in a belt location that will position the front edge of the carrier behind the centerline of the body. H. Carry no more than two spare magazines on the belt. OLD C. Have either a snap/Velcro cover or a tension device that will positively lock the speedloader/full moon clip in the carrier. D. Require a releasing action to remove the speedloader/full moon clip from the carrier. E. Hold a loaded speedloader/full moon clip securely in the carrier. 34 F. Cover the full diameter of the speedloader/full moon clip but not hold the speedloader/full moon clip by only a few of the cartridges. One speedloader/full moon clip may be worn directly in front of the holster. Two additional ones may be worn behind the centerline on either the right or left side for a total of three speedloaders/full moon clips on the belt. NEW C. Hold the speedloader/moon clip with enough tension to allow it to be turned upside down and retain it while fully loaded. D. Cover at least 60% of the diameter of the speedloader or moon clip (side cuts are permitted for thumb and index finger 36 access only). Speedloaders or moon clips may not be retained in the carrier by three (3) or less cartridges. E. Have either a strap or flap that is secured by a snap or Velcro or a tension device that will positively lock the speedloader/full moon clip in the carrier (such as a “lip” that extends over the edge of the speedloader/moon clip to secure it in the pouch). F. Require a releasing action to remove the speedloader/full moon clip from the carrier. Two speedloaders/full moon clips may be worn directly in front of the holster. One additional ones may be worn behind the centerline on either the right or left side for a total of three speedloaders/full moon clips on the belt. NOTE: A three (3) second procedural penalty will be assessed any time a loaded ammunition feeding device (magazine, speedloader or full moon clip) is dropped from the carrier during a course of fire. OLD 3. Concealment Garments. All equipment should be so placed that, when wearing an open concealment garment with your arms extended at your sides and parallel to the ground, it can NOT been seen from the front, rear or sides. Your concealment garment should be practical for your environment and loose enough to allow easy movement. Vented or mesh vests may not show the firearm, holster, spare ammo or ammo carriers. Chest pockets, specially-made pockets or any material inserted in pockets or around pockets to keep the pocket open cannot be used to stow partial magazines after a reload. Garments that are considered “competition only” will incur an FTDR. See “Proper Magazine Retention” in the Glossary for further details. NEW 3. Concealment Garments. All equipment should be so placed that, when wearing an open concealment garment with your arms extended at your sides and parallel to the ground, it can NOT been seen from the front, rear or sides. Your concealment garment should be practical for your environment and loose enough to allow easy movement. Competition only garments are prohibited. Competition only garments are defined as: vented or mesh vests that allow the firearm, holster, spare ammo or ammo carriers to be visible when standing normally, chest pockets, specially-made pockets or any material inserted in pockets or around pockets to keep the pocket open for stowage of partial magazines after a reload. Garments that are considered “competition only” will incur an FTDR. See “Proper Magazine Retention” in the Glossary for further details. OLD Subcategories such as high Law Enforcement, High Lady, High Senior, High Veteran, High Junior, High Industry, High Press, 45 High International, High Military and Most Accurate Shooter may be recognized at sanctioned matches, but are not required. NEW Subcategories such as High Law Enforcement, High Lady, High Senior (ages 50 – 64), High Distinguished Senior (ages 65 and older), High Junior (ages 12 to 1, High Industry, High Press, High International, High Military (Active Military), High Military Veteran (ex-military, retired or discharged) and Most Accurate Shooter may be recognized at sanctioned matches, but are not required. OLD Radial Tear: An elongated bullet hole resulting from the target being engaged at an extreme angle. NEW Radial Tear: A tear in the cardboard or paper that occurs perpendicular to the grease ring of the bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer-lock Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Thanks! That is a most useful contribution. geezer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Tx, could you clarify whether the differences are between the "old LGB" and the first edition of the new rules or differences between the "old LGB" and the revised edition of the new rules? Thanx, Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txaggie Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 The "OLD" refers to the version released on 1/5/05 and "NEW" refers to the version released on 1/16/05 (or 1/17/05) Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 TX My bad I should have read the first line Thanx for the patience, Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Very nice. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay1 Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Super Sweet! That was an art form for comparison - thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Could you point me to this rule? NEW n. Any time a loaded ammunition feeding device (magazine, speedloader or full moon clip) is dropped from the carrier during a course of fire. Can't seem to find it in the book. Is it saying if you accidentally drop a mag from your belt you get a penalty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 It is a NOTE at the very bottom of Appendix One - Equipment, Chapter D - Ammunition Carriers. In the PDF it is on page 36 in about the middle of the page. It is also under rule PP1 - Procedural Error, Examples, item n. In the PDF it is on page 16 at the bottom of the shaded box. ---- Yes, if a magazine/speedloader/moonclip falls from it's carrier during a stage then it is a procedural error. I think this is a good idea and I'd rather see this than a lot of ammunition carrier rules on tension and locking mechanisms. By adding a penalty the shooters will work out for themselves what keeps their gear in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwmagnus Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 It is a NOTE at the very bottom of Appendix One - Equipment, Chapter D - Ammunition Carriers. In the PDF it is on page 36 in about the middle of the page.It is also under rule PP1 - Procedural Error, Examples, item n. In the PDF it is on page 16 at the bottom of the shaded box. ---- Yes, if a magazine/speedloader/moonclip falls from it's carrier during a stage then it is a procedural error. I think this is a good idea and I'd rather see this than a lot of ammunition carrier rules on tension and locking mechanisms. By adding a penalty the shooters will work out for themselves what keeps their gear in place. What's your take on.... E. Have either a strap or flap that is secured by a snap or Velcro or a tension device that will positively lock the speedloader/full moon clip in the carrier (such as a “lip” that extends over the edge of the speedloader/moon clip to secure it in the pouch). F. Require a releasing action to remove the speedloader/full moon clip from the carrier. Sounds like to me the Shoot the Moon carriers don't meet even the new revision, due to E & F above. This is still one I don't agree with. I've never had a loaded moonclip fall out of it's carrier (Shoot the Moon). I agree if it does then a 3sec panality should be assessed but not just in revolver shooting. I've consistently suggested ALL divisions be treated equally. Drop a 1911 mag from the carrier and get hit with the 3 sec also. I hope the snap/velcro positive retension thing changes in the final draft. Bill Wilson is still open to suggestions. I've sent mine in. Everyone else can do the same, just keep it respectful. We're making progress! txaggie thanks for the great before and after look! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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