mcb Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Got some pictures of a new, old gun. So it ain't no Webley Mark VI (Man I want to find an affordable one of those one of these days) but I picked up a nice condition Iver & Johnson safety automatic this weekend pretty cheap. I have always had a soft place for break action revolvers. From my research it appears to be a second model built in 1906. It's now the oldest gun in my modest collection beating my Winchester Model 1906 Pump 22 that was manufactured in 1912. It's in fairly good condition for as old as it is. There is some of the nickel plating missing on the barrel just ahead of the cylinder with some rust also. There is some rust under the top strap but otherwise fairly clean condition. The bore is also in pretty good condition with minimal pitting. I took the grips off to get the main serial number: Q56734 ("Q" prefix was used in 1906) This number matches the numbers on the trigger guard and under the top strap. The barrel rib has the follow text: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31815523/ij/rib.jpg The Butt of the grip has the following patent information: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31815523/ij/butt.jpg The second model was, as I understand, a black powder gun so I am going to have be real careful if I choose to shoot it. Anyone have any experience with these old revolvers and modern 38S&W ammunition. The little bit of factory 38S&W ammunition (Rem Prvi Partizan) I have seen seems to loaded really light even compared to historic blackpowder 38S&W loads but I like my fingers where they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Cool! I have a few S&W top-breaks in the safe, including a .44 Russian DA that is way cool. One neat thing about the big .44s is that all were made prior to 1899, making them bona fide antiques....no FFL needed to transfer or ship. I have actually fired my competition .38 short colt loads through my 2" .38 S&W New Departure. They function, but aren't very accurate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brnhp35 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I have an old h&r in 38 s&w myself and the best loads i found were with light charges of bullseye behind a hollow base wadcutter. Mine did not have as nice a bore and any and all factory ammo keyholed past about 10 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56hawk Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Just buy the dies and brass. You are going to want them anyway when you get your Webley. Don't know how hot factory ammo is, but I do load smokeless powder in two really old revolvers. I just started with a small charge of Bullseye and worked up until I hit 500fps. Figured that would be fast enough that I wouldn't have to worry about sticking a bullet in the barrel. My 38 S&W loads are a little hotter though since all mine are smokeless era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 Thanks guys! I have two boxes of Prvi Partizan on order to start with. Its loaded pretty light, 145gr RN going 675fps. Given the old black powder loads were heavier bullets going about the same speed I think this will be safe pressure-wise. I do plan on reloading it will some light loads of bullseye. My only problem is that when the hammer and trigger is all the way back the cylinder stops just a tad too soon and it not quite lined up with the barrel. It's not off by much but all five charge holes stop short and are eccentric by maybe 0.005-0.008 inch. I can see the face of the cylinder in the rifling grooved on one side but not on the other. This gun uses a cylinder stop that is a fixed part of the trigger, so the cylinder stop only stops the cylinder from advancing when the trigger is fully pulled and the pawl keeps it from rebounding. I have ordered a spare trigger and pawl from Numrich and I am going to try to get this cylinder top adjusted to get better alignment. Figured I would have spare parts ready ahead of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannparks Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Who has a nice load for the 38s&w? It will go in a Webley. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcloudy777 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I do so wish that someone would build a new top-break. Modern metallurgy and CNC should make it feasible, at least in .38 +p. Heck, the Russians did it, we should certainly be able to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56hawk Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Who has a nice load for the 38s&w? It will go in a Webley. Charles I'm using 1.8 grains of Bullseye behind a 158 grain lead bullet. I would suggest getting the Lyman reloading manual though, they have quite a few loads for the 38 S&W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted June 13, 2014 Author Share Posted June 13, 2014 I found this page digging around. http://www.reloadammo.com/38sw.htm It list a bunch of 38S&W loads and many are designated for break top revolvers. Have no idea if the data is good but it looks OK given other data I have found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 So I did not like the alignment of the cylinder to the barrel so with the parts I order from Numrich I re-timed the cylinder last week. I replacing the pawl but kept the original trigger shaving about 0.010 off the cylinder stop. I probably had the gun apart and back together 20 times fitting the new pawl. Now the cylinder locks up with each charge hole nicely aligned with the barrel and stays locked up in both single and double action. The old pawl would sometime slip off the star in double action mode allowing the cylinder to rotate back. After yesterday USPSA match I gave it a test fire with some 145gr Prvi Partizan 38S&W I ordered online. Put 20rds through it with no malfunctions although I did loose a patch of nickel off the forward section of the cylinder between two flutes. The important thing is I still have all my fingers and toes! It shot remarkable well for a 108 year old revolver. At 25 feet I managed the following groups. The head shots where single action, the body was double action. It's cool to have a old break action revolver, it's even cooler that I can occasion go out and shoot it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidRich Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 The cylinder is the key on that revolver telling you it is BP. I have one that looks just like it that is made by Iver Johnson but was one of their "economy" revolvers. They shoot very well with BP loads and unsized .358 soft lead 125g bullets from a Lee mold. KR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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