M&P 9L to try Open Division Pistol Shooting

[CrawfishStu]

A couple of things kind of came together in deciding to put together an open M&P.

I decided that I wanted to give open division a try mainly because I wanted to run my Firebird MKA1919 in 3 gun comps. I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that I love owning multiple firearms, so this was probably just a gateway into owning a 2011. Before deciding to drop the money on an open pistol costing over $3k plus mags and optic, I wanted to see if I even liked having an optic on a pistol. I had recently semi retired my competition use M&P 9L from IDPA use in favor of an X5LW. I would probably have built a standard length M&P but, both of the 9mm ones that I owned were 5" guns. I figured if I really loved it, I would wind up with a bunch of parts that could be moved over to a shorter M&P save the barrel. The optic could even be used on a different pistol and most of the parts sold off if needed

From my IDPA setup:

M&P9L

Apex CAEK

TFO Sights

Pachmayr Grip

Reversed Mag Release

Added:

Carver 4 Port Comp

Storm Lake Threaded Barrel

Springer Precision EZ Slide Racker

Speed Shooter Specialties Black Brass Magwell

Speed Shooter Specialties Brass Magwell Stud

Speed Shooter Specialties Tungsten Non Captured Guide Rod

13lbs Spring

SJC CMore Mount

6 MOA CMore

TF 170mm Mag Extensions

I have the Carver mount and it would not work with the DAA Race Master holster. Nor did I like the height of the optic. Nor did I like how loose it fit.

I was a little nervous about the permanent modification of the M&P frame to mount the SJC but it is extremely nice, solid, and the low mount of the CMore is just ideal.

The Carver mount is easier to take apart/remove for cleaning etc and has a blast shield. But, it just really didn't seem up to what I wanted to do with it or to my personal preferences.

The SJC also clears the ejection port completely so there are zero worries about ejection issues caused by the mount or optic.

The slide racker was meant to work with the Carver mount. It isn't ideal with the SJC mount. I didn't have an issue with it at the comp I shot with it but I'm sure it would shave a little off to have it in a different position. It is a nice product. It just doesn't fit this application perfectly.

I'm impressed with the CMore. The range of brightness is great. With the SJC mount, it points very naturally and is easy to pick up in the natural movement of pushing the pistol to the target. In a pistol that I have shot 10k rounds through, it just still felt pretty natural. It is much heavier. So, it is not the same and drawing from the DAA is going to take a little tweaking to get used to.

Overall impressions:

I like open.

I like a lot about this setup but would make some changes that may or may not be achievable with an M&P. Though, it is probably better than I ever will be able to shoot it anyway.

I like the optic, optic mount, holster, comp, magwell, capacity, reversed mag release, ease of part fitment, replacement part availability, overall cost, and lack of muzzle rise. It's fun to shoot.

I don't like the trigger, drilling holes in a plastic pistol, the overall length of the pistol, or the slide racker.

I was pretty happy with the trigger for IDPA. That was before the X5 and a gunsmithed loaded target SA1911. The mastershop trigger on the X5 for competition has spoiled me a bit. Moving to a pistol that stays on target and really wants to test how fast you can double tap is a little beyond what this trigger does. I have an Apex Foward Set Trigger that was going to be put in another pistol that may wind up in this one to see how much of a difference it makes. I would also really like to have the slide cut up to see what kind of difference that it makes but it starts to add up. At what point do you cut it off and step up to a 2011? I probably have about $1700 into the package already with the original pistol and the mags I used for the extensions. While this is way shy of what a 2011 setup with mags would cost, we are not exactly comparing apple to apples. It was fun to put together and is fun to shoot. I'm glad I gave it a shot. As for the results of the first comp I ran with it, It was a 3 man 3 gun competition and about 2/3 of the way through the match I tossed it in a bucket on top of another shooters pistol for my first ever DQ. This pistol was impressive though and ran with zero issues.

[thermobollocks]

Are you using the DAA Racemaster with the new mount for 3-gun? How do you like it?

[CrawfishStu]

I am. I am going to figure out a way to mount it to a QLS to go on my belt.

You really need to locktite the screws when you get it set up. I wish the tension adjustment would go a little higher but I locks very securely with the finger lever. I wished the lever was a little longer when I started practicing but it soon felt pretty natural to flip it when drawing.

I love the changeable blocks for different pistols.

[openclassterror]

You pretty much followed my thought process exactly when I set up my XDm. Not sure if I wanted to do the optic/ open pistol thing, but already in open for 3gun. Didn't want to blow 5 grand on a 2011 only to find out it wasn't for me. Now I am hooked, and having a 2011 built. My XDm is about as well constructed as can be, but has shortcomings. These things can't ever get to 2011 level-

1. Trigger...for any amount of money. The engagement required between the sear (in the frame) and striker (in the slide) means you can't ever have a no-travel 2lb trigger

2. Recoil spring. In addition to loading the round into the chamber, the last thing the spring must do is pre-load the striker spring. Which means it encounters increased resistance RIGHT at the end of the cycle. If you go too light, the striker spring keeps the slide from camming up into the locked position. No possibility for 8lb recoil springs here!

3. Optic mount. I have never seen a polymer frame gun with the same level of fit on the slide rails as a well-built 2011. No matter how rigid your optic mount is to the frame, if the slide/ barrel assembly can wobble around on the frame rails, accuracy will be lost.

That said, I still do quite well with XDm. For 3gun the speed gains from optics are big, and tiny targets at long distances are rare. The 3" 25yd groups I get are more than sufficient for the types of stages 3gunners typically shoot. You can get most popular polymer guns down under 3lbs on the trigger, though not crisp like a 2011. I run a shortened 14 lb recoil spring, so much better than stock, though it doesn't track as flat as a light slide .38 super. All-in-all, I am happy with it. I will still shoot it sometimes even after my 2011 is finished just because I LOVE getting glared at by the 2011 guys I beat with a Tupperware gun!

[fxdc]

For ur apex fss.... I got 2.2lbs BUT I used.

Fss alum trigger kit

Competition spring kit

Ram kit

I'm. Just waiting on the delta point 2 to finish the build.

This will get me back in the games... Have shot 1911's along time, the core mp points the best for me and others use to a 1911.

Just wanna have Fun!

A12243

[steviesterno]

i did the same thing pretty much, built an open M&P for the hell of it and to give it a whirl. I played with a lot o frame mounted optics and don't like how high they are, so I melted an RMR into the slide. Still no comp, but I run 9mm minor and mostly shoot 45, so the recoil is no big deal at this point. My minor load feels a lot like 22, but maybe I'll add a comp some day.

I'm running 140mms, where did you get the TF 170mm extension?

[CrawfishStu]

Notes. Even with locktite, the frame screws for the sjc mount and the compensator all came loose.

Put the forward set trigger kit on it. It took a lot of tweeking with the trigger bar to make it work right. I finally got it to where the reset and the break are pretty close together and work perfectly reliably. The safety tang spring is too strong. I need to adjust it a little or wear it in some. You can feel your finger come off of the trigger face and just the contact with the safety tang is letting the trigger travel to return. It's an off feeling and throw me way off from feeling the reset to click out anothe round. The "engagement" of the safety tang leaves a little to be desired. Requiring a little less pressure to activate the tang would probably help and it is hard to describe.

Put your finger on the trigger. By the time you have enough pressure on the safety tang to get to the trigger face the safety tang has started to push the trigger back a little. This causes the tang to hang up on the frame as it is intended to do in the event of the trigger grabbing on something or momentum from a drop where the trigger wants to travel but the tang isn't depressed. Basically, it requires more force to push the tang in all of the way than it does to start the trigger travel. I was tired and didn't measure these amounts yet. Anyway, you get the feel of the trigger breaking when the tang catches the frame, then the trigger bottoms out, then the tang becomes depressed enough to slide over the frame and dissengage the safety function. If feels like shooting the gun. I would not make the edges softer as that might defeat the purpose of needing it to be depresses to slide over the frame and allow the trigger to be pressed. So it would seem that a lighter safety tang spring or heavier trigger spring would fix it.

[fxdc]

Hey I solved the safety tang problem.... When axpex told me the remove material from the front of trigger well to get the tang to clear... I knew it would add to the pretravel sooo.

I filed the Tang and almost nothing off the trigger well..... And also used a small edged file and made a small groove at the back top of the trigger well so even if I flubbed the finger pad position on trigger the tang would clear the back of the well....

I still have safe trigger as the tang resets and holds if I don't touch the tang ... Test by pulling on edge of trigger!

Play Safe

A12243

[CrawfishStu]

Got any pictures of what you did?

I feel like a lighter tang spring would solve everything that I am feeling but I would love to check that out.

[fxdc]

Crawfishstu

I would love to ... But I cannt seem to attach pics!

PM me with some E-mail info and I will send some pics.

[mese341]

i bet that gun will rip i hope you do well

[mwc5]

Very nice pistol. I've been shooting a 9mm CORE - Deltapoint, FSS alum trigger and Quadraport. It is fun and was in the $1500 range, BUT I still want for a 2011 ................

Edited May 20, 2014 by mwc5

[ZackJones]

Very nice pistol. I've been shooting a 9mm CORE - Deltapoint, FSS alum trigger and Quadraport. It is fun and was in the $1500 range, BUT I still want for a 2011 ................

Did quadraporting make a big difference? Also what kind of loads are you running through it?

[mwc5]

Quadraport made noticeable diff. They suggest 45% recoil reduction and I would agree w that. Have only used factory 124 & 115gr ammo - not much difference between those two rounds (mostly PMC, Win white box, American Eagle).

After installing 17lb ISMI spring (tungsten GR) pistol is 100% reliable w all above ammo. Did have few light strikes and 2 stove pipes w a 15lb spring.

[thermobollocks]

Quadraport made noticeable diff. They suggest 45% recoil reduction and I would agree w that. Have only used factory 124 & 115gr ammo - not much difference between those two rounds (mostly PMC, Win white box, American Eagle).

After installing 17lb ISMI spring (tungsten GR) pistol is 100% reliable w all above ammo. Did have few light strikes and 2 stove pipes w a 15lb spring.

Factory nines generally seem happy with a 15# spring. Do you suppose the extra mass of the optic makes you need a little more oomph to get the slide back into battery?

[mwc5]

It's possible the red dot ads few ounces, but Apex immediately suggested ditching the 15 for a 17 when I asked them about the light strikes and stovepipe.

Bottom line is the pistol has run 100% through almost 1000 rds since I went w the 17lb spring.

[CrawfishStu]

I wound up trimming the spring a hair on the safety tang. Did exactly what I wanted. Now the tang compresses before get trigger travel but works as the safety should when you just pull the trigger.