How low can you go?

[Cybe]

Hi guys, noob in Ohio here. Pardon my ignorance, but I couldn't think of a better group to ask.

I read a lot about lighter springs to accommodate soft loads, so I loaded some rounds to investigate.

My lightest 9mm rounds are:

NOTE: Don't use my data, I've no idea what I'm doing.

3.0gr Unique, CCI500, Xtreme 124RN (.355) @1.150, and

2.8gr Titegroup, CCI500, Xtreme 147RN (.356) @ 1.140.

To cover my bases, the rounds all plunk happily, don't shrink or set back and aren't over crimped. (the 147s don't feed well in the 75 at this length, so I used them in a P07)

Both of these loads cycle a 75BD and a factory fresh P07 Duty with stock parts. The P07 has a very hard recoil spring, so I'm puzzled..

I don't really need a softer load, and I've not chronoed.

But shouldn't I be seeing failures to eject, stovepipes? I shot a few hundred each yesterday. Not a single issue, and ejection was decent.

Anybody care to ponder aloud?

[Sarge]

I have never loaded unique but the TG load is certainly on the low side. Mid 3 grains is a pretty light load for 147's. But if your guns run them fine then I say keep doing what you are doing. When your guns get overly dirty they will let you know when loads are too light in my experience. When / if you do start getting ejection issues that would be telling you to make a change, clean gun, etc. As long as the brass is clearing the gun enough on ejection to not hinder the guns performance I would just drive on. Keep an eye on your primers making sure they stay seated with the really weak loads. Sometimes when it takes forever to get a bullet out the muzzle pressure can build up and try to push the primer out causing gas leaks which COULD maybe potentially damage your breech face. Usually really weak ammo will blacken the spent case pretty good as well indication gas coming around the sides of the case due to poor expansion from lack of enough umph to seal things up.

It's not surprising that your guns work fine with light loads. From my testing Glocks and XD seem to work fine with almost any decent charge. They may not handle ideally without going to weaker springs but they typically function just fine.

Are you just shooting informally or are you going to shoot some competition? Where at in Ohio? Lot's of USPSA in certain pockets of the state. SW Ohio is full of matches. You should come out and at least watch a match or two. I promise it's not addicting!

[Cybe]

Thanks, Sarge.

The Unique load is pretty low too, about proportionate to the Titegroup one.

At 3.2 Titegroup and 147 I saw a tiny bit of primer flow; Unique is so forgiving I've been very cautious with TG.

True, the nose of my P07 was made filthy with those 2.8 / 147 loads and the brass is pretty ugly too. Maybe the light springs are more useful for tuning than making it run right?

I'm still just plinking at the ranges for now, but I've been going a LOT. (a LOT.)

I'm in Columbus but not afraid to drive - if I can find a friendly steel match, pin shoot, or whatever I'll be game to try!

My local ranges are nasr (dotcom) and lepd (dotcom). Happy to meet any locals.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Cybe

[Blankenhole]

I don't want to drift the thread, Sarge gave some great information there, but where at in SW Ohio do they have these matches? I live about halfway between columbus and cinci about 5 minutes from 71. I would love to check some matches out and possibly get into some this summer.

[Cybe]

I can't post links yet, but Steel Challenge has a club search (which, at the moment, is broken for me) but I remember seeing some distant Ohio listings.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Cybe

[Blankenhole]

I will take a look, thanks

[Sarge]

PCSI in Circleville has steel challenge, USPSA, action pistol(Bianchi), maybe even IDPA and a little 3 gun.

Clinton county has IDPA and I think 3gun.

Of course there are the three USPSA monthly matches here near Cincy.

MRPC

OXFORD

MIAMISBURG

[kneelingatlas]

Hi guys, noob in Ohio here. Pardon my ignorance, but I couldn't think of a better group to ask.

I read a lot about lighter springs to accommodate soft loads, so I loaded some rounds to investigate.

My lightest 9mm rounds are:

NOTE: Don't use my data, I've no idea what I'm doing.

3.0gr Unique, CCI500, Xtreme 124RN (.355) @1.150, and

2.8gr Titegroup, CCI500, Xtreme 147RN (.356) @ 1.140.

To cover my bases, the rounds all plunk happily, don't shrink or set back and aren't over crimped. (the 147s don't feed well in the 75 at this length, so I used them in a P07)

Both of these loads cycle a 75BD and a factory fresh P07 Duty with stock parts. The P07 has a very hard recoil spring, so I'm puzzled..

I don't really need a softer load, and I've not chronoed.

But shouldn't I be seeing failures to eject, stovepipes? I shot a few hundred each yesterday. Not a single issue, and ejection was decent.

Anybody care to ponder aloud?

I'm really surprised you didn't have stovepipes with your Unique loads (I've never loaded TG so I can't help with that one), in my CZ 5.1gr of Unique under a 124 makes 135, so I suspect that load is ~100PF.

To your original question: "how low can you go?" I've shot sub minor loads in my CZ75 pattern pistols using 8# recoil springs and they function well; I don't think you can hurt the frame with sub minor loads regardless, so the indicator you've gone too low would be if the slide doesn't have enough energy to strip the next round on its way into battery. I've had some pistols with a tight slide/frame fit bog way down while cycling with a light spring, but a well polished or maybe even a little loose top end should work fine. Once it starts to get dirty, you run the risk of malfunction with light springs.

[BBBB]

I think it's pretty unlikely that you are seeing indications of excess pressure on the primers with that Titegroup load. 3.2gr at 1.145"OAL gave me 130pf out of an XDM 4.5 at 65 degrees and I did not notice any indications of pressure problems. The Hodgdon website lists 3.6 as max for a 147gr jacketed bullet seated to 1.100 which is a good bit shorter than where you are and a good bit more powder. Also, CCI primers are on the hard side making it even less likely. You can always post pictures of your primer if you want people to comment on what you are seeing.

[Cybe]

Thanks Atlas and B for the information and reassurance.

(Atlas, I'm also surprised)

(BBBB, just a flattened ridge around the pin indent. Wrong terminology on my part maybe?)

I'll try some more things and keep track of a few casings. I read posts about casings just tumbling off the gun, but I've yet to see that with what appears to be a really light (too light?) dose. These aren't clapped out guns, either.

* The guns were super dirty, but if I'm safe and I'm shooting then I've got no complaints.

Thanks again.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Cybe