147's and Titegroup out of a 5.25?

[hukdizzle]

Gents,

I have done extensive searching but haven't found an abundance of info with the components I plan on using. Was hoping to gather some more information before going into my new reloading endeavor.

XDM 5.25 9MM in ESP IDPA

Here is what I have worked up for my potential load

Bullet: Xtreme 147g RN Plated

Powder: 3.3g Titegroup

Primer: Federal Match Small Pistol

OAL - 1.15"

I am looking to get around 130-132PF but this will be determined with ladder testing at 3.3/3/4/3.5 grains etc. I am going to be using a Lee Pro Auto Disk to throw my powder and unfortunately the lowest charge that it will throw is around .28cc which equates to 3.3g of powder(theoretical at this point, I don't have it yet to actually do charge testing). Any issues with cycling at these powder factors by chance? Should I drop a 16lb or 14lb recoil spring with a lighter striker spring into the gun?

Thanks for the help,

-Curtis

[Studlee]

My current load:

Bullet: 135gr Bayou 9mm RN

Powder: 3.3g Titegroup

Primer: Federal Match Small Pistol

OAL - 1.14"

This gives me 130PF. I've heard of people having striker issues with the lighter spring. As soon as they put the stock back in no issues. I left the stock striker spring.

I put in a 16lb Wolf spring and had FTE issues in 2 different matches. I put the stock back in and have had no issues so far. I really can't tell the difference between the stock 18lb and 16lb spring.

[jdlincoln]

Don't know about Titegroup, but I have just recently been running Berry's 147 plated with 3.9-4.0gr Power Pistol at 1.133 in my 5.25. Shoot and cycle well, soft, but haven't chronoed yet. They feel very similar to Federal AE 147's, which was my target. Only thing I don't like is that the Berry's are very inconsistent in weight. I'm going to work up some loads using Bayou and Precision 147's this winter and see how they compare.

[Nghthwk1911]

Current Load or my M&P Pro 5in.

147gr Bayou Bullet

3.1 gr Titegroup

1.160 OAL

132pf

[grapemeister]

Curtis, Here are a couple of old post from TGO (Rob Leatham) He does a lot better job of describing how the striker and recoil springs work together. This will pretty much answer your question.

Posted 19 December 2011 - 07:46 AM

'TGO', on 18 Dec 2011 - 3:28 PM, said:

The factor that is not being addressed here is the XD/XDm platforms striker is in the slide and the sear is in the frame. When the gun closes the striker is held by the sear before the slide closes fully and therefore the recoil spring must overcome not only the resistance of pulling the round from the magazine and feeding it, but the striker spring tension also. The 1911 does not do this so you can't go off experience with them. The differential between the striker and recoil springs are what matter here. As a rough test I do this; with a round chambered and with a full magazine inserted, retract the slide slowly about a 1/4 inch and then release it. If the slide does not close fully, your gun may not stay closed during reloads or even when shooting. Instal and aftermarket or refit the barrel tightly and/or add questionable ammo to the equation and you could have real problems.

I use in my 5.25 9mm with minor caliber ammo, a 14 lb. recoil spring but am also using a lighter striker spring I get from Springer precision. I know CC and PRP also have them and are used in most ultra super trigger jobs. Now you probably know this but per the manufacturers, these reduced power striker springs are only reliable with select primers. I use WW or Federal only.

If you mix and match recoil and striker springs in striker fired guns and you don't know what your doing you will have problems. Like putting a 15 lb mainspring in a 1911 with a titanium firing pin, you are going to have some issues. If in doubt, talk to whoever worked on your gun and if they don't understand this, find someone else who does. All this is well known in the Glock and S&W M&P world so it's nothing new.

If in doubt and especially if you are not using the lightest possible load, stick with heavier recoil springs. The stock weight works with most any factory level load I have tried.

Rob

Thanks for the information;it certainly makes since. I read on the forum a long time ago about putting in lighter striker springs when using light recoil springs, but I had forgotten all about it. Although I won't go any lighter than a 16lb spring for the 124 grain load I've worked up for USPSA/IPSC matches, I'm wondering if maybe I should at least try a lighter striker spring as an added precaution. I use Federal primers anyhow, so light primers strikes shouldn't be an issue. Eventually, I want to work up a light 115 gr steel load, and in that case I might try going back to a 14lb spring, but I will certainly put in a lighter striker spring,too.

My gun has been in the Springfield Armory custom shop for a while now. Anything you can do to speed things a long? ....just kidding. I'm sure they're quite busy this time of year.

Thanks again for the information, and advice.

Chris

Posted 19 December 2011 - 09:59 AM

I have yet to see a striker spring light enough to not set off Federal primers, so you are on top of that. Most of the time the Custom Shop tries to do the trigger job with the factory spring so the gun will light anything. When done right there is only a few ounces difference in pull weight between the lightest and heaviest striker spring. But when the stock striker and 14 lb recoil springs get used together is when you run into reliability problems. Yea, they are very busy, but the wait is worth it.

Rob

[hukdizzle]

Fantastic info gentlemen, thank you!

[hukdizzle]

If anyone wanted to know it appears that the following load.

Xtreme .356 147g RN

3.2g Titegroup

Federal Match Primer

Shot out of a 9MM XDM 5.25" in roughly 60'F weather is running around 950FPS average over two 5 shot strings, gun was already dirty from an IDPA match earlier that day. I am shooting some 3.0g loads this weekend over the chrono and will update with my findings.

[chevyoneton]

Looks like that load is right at 140pf. I know you may want to tweak things a bit to get the pf down for less recoil and maybe slight compoenet (powder) savings but don't dismiss a good 140ish pf load. My .40 minor pf load (Titegroup) runs there or a little higher and I really like it (XDm 5.25). My Single Stack Minor 9mm load runs better at 135+pf too. It not only cycles better buts burns cleaner too not producing as much smoke (Unique).

[hukdizzle]

Thanks for the info chevyoneton. I have 30 loaded up with 3.0g of Titegroup that I will be putting over the chrono and through the gun this weekend to check the performance. I am not averse to shooting a 140PF load but if I can get the gun to cycle reliably at around 890-900FPS with potentially a lower recoil I believe I will give it a shot for a bit. I am looking at dropping in a 16LB wolff recoil spring as well and MAYBE going with a lighter striker spring if needed since I am using federal match primers.

[hukdizzle]

So I didn't have my beam scale zero'd properly on my previous two trips to the range and it appears that I was loading 3.4g and 2.8g respectively to my last two range trips. 3.4g runs around 950fps average and 2.8g wouldn't cycle the gun properly an was running around 810fps. I finally got my scale zero'd correctly and double checked several charges and ran 3.2g over the chrono today and it was right at 131PF or 892FPS average. Gun cycles great with stock recoil spring and has very little recoil.

[BungeeeMan]

I tried some of my friend's test load (he shoots a glock 34 with a storm lake barrel) in my XDm 5.25 and they ended up around 132 PF. He's using X-treme 147gr HPCB's (we got a bunch for cheap to try) with 3.0 gr titegroup and CCI small pistol primers. I think the OAL is 1.150. It feels pretty similar to the Atlanta Arms and Ammo 147gr load I had with me, which is very soft. The accuracy didn't seem so great though, so I'll tweak the load and report back. I don't have any previous experience with the X-treme bullets but I'm worried they're the problem, so I'll weigh some out and see how consistent they are. The gun cycled fine with a 16lb wolf spring though (but I may go to 14 for this load anyway).

Edited January 14, 2014 by BungeeeMan