The DA trigger

[mcoliver]

Stage requires that you activate a swinger first, say a drawer. You commence the stage and start pulling on the drawer. You draw and start pre-loading the trigger, hammer starts cocking. Fumbled somewhere and the swinger disappears before you can shoot it. Let go of the trigger and move to the next visible target and shoot it.

Problem: The hammer was no longer in the same position for the first shot as when you started with the COF (probably already in half-cock). Assuming the RO catches this (majority probably won't), it's already a procedural, right?

Apreciate your replies.

Thanks.

[Yoda]

mcoliver,

I assume you are referring to Production Division - right? I see no reason for any procedural as the movement of the hammer is caused by activating the trigger. So effectively the first shot is being shot Double Action. That the action was a little delayed in between - who cares?

[Ron Ankeny]

The course of fire started prior to opening the drawer. Heck, as long as the gun is in the proper starting position, I can thumb cock prior to engaging the first target.

[Skywalker]

The course of fire started prior to opening the drawer. Heck, as long as the gun is in the proper starting position, I can thumb cock prior to engaging the first target.

AFAIK, this is legal under USPSA rules, not under IPSC rules.

Appendix D4 Production Division:

17. Single-action-only handguns are prohibited. First shot must be double action. Handguns with external hammers must be fully decocked. Competitors in this Division who, after the issuance of the start signal and prior to making the first shot, cock the hammer on a handgun which has a loaded chamber, will incur one procedural penalty per occurrence. Note that a procedural penalty will not be assessed if the first double action shot attempted fails to discharge due to a malfunction, or in respect of courses of fire where the ready condition requires the competitor to prepare the handgun with an empty chamber. In these cases, the competitor may fire the first shot single action.

Relevant periods highlighted

[Ron Ankeny]

Excluding the thumb cocking comments, the condition of the pistol is hammer down, blah, blah, prior to the start signal. If I begin to engage a target, then switch to another, what difference could that possibly make as long as I shoot double action? Think of it as a real long two stage pull.

[Nik Habicht]

Luca,

think of it a different way: Did the gun start in the required start position --- hammer down? Did the shooter use anything other than the trigger to make the hammer rise and fall, firing the first round? If the answer's are Yes and No respectively, no procedural.....

[mcoliver]

Yoda, yes, my bad, IPSC Production Div. Does USPSA rules have the same conditions?

My question was brought about by another thread (dang, can't find it!). It was a discussion about the DA trigger being fully down at the start even with guns that has a half-cock option.

Since pre-loading a trigger is the recommened technique in the draw, I was wondering what happens when you don't push through with the shot and the hammer is now in half-cock. Then engage another target with the hammer already in that condition.

[Vince Pinto]

Hi guys,

The first shot must be double action. Now if the gun had the hammer completely down prior to the start signal, provided the hammer still moves rearward and then falls forward due to trigger action after the "McOliver Finger Fumble", this is "double-action" as defined by IPSC rules, hence no penalty.

BTW, if I'm a it slower than usual responding over the next few days, please note that I'm in the Philippines (Ormoc) with a lousy dialup connection.

[kimber45]

No procedural, as long as the first shot is double action

[mcoliver]

Btw, Vince, 'watcha still doing in Ormoc? The Championships was last month. And don't forget to try their tiny pineapple-in-a-barbecue-stick.

[Vince Pinto]

Btw, Vince, 'watcha still doing in Ormoc? The Championships was last month. And don't forget to try their tiny pineapple-in-a-barbecue-stick.

And the lechon kawali is something else too

[Jake Di Vita]

The trigger isn't even noticable once you've dry fired it 100,000 times.

[Skywalker]

Nik,

I quoted Ron's statement because my answer was to him, not to mcoliver.

Under IPSC rules you canno thumb cock the hammer after start signal, thus shooting the first shot single action

[kimber45]

The trigger isn't even noticable once you've dry fired it 100,000 times.

I was told you'll go blind doing that

[Flexmoney]

Stop when you need glasses.

[Jake Di Vita]

I have my gun unloaded next to my bed everynight. When I'm watching TV, reading, just laying in the dark, I'll pick it up and dry fire it a few times, maybe do a reload or two.

Over the course of a day, there is never more than a 30 or 45 minute lull between clicks.

[kimber45]

Jake, when you reach my age you might need that little blue pill

-John Baier

[Jake Di Vita]

Hahaha, you are forgetting one thing my friend.....I'm Italian.