When to Reload?

[bigfish]

what should be done if someone finds an unintended hole in the rules that completely underminds the intent of the stage is that it should be declared a forbidden action. Rule 3.2.6. allows for that. I would rule that waiting until after the last shot to perform the manditory reload a forbidden action. I'm a gamer too but when you find a way to perform part of the stage off the clock that completely ruins the stage for the hole match.

I would rule that you should not be RO'ing, since in my poor humble opinion you do not understand the term "freestyle".

FWIW

Mildot

Don't even go there. The reason that I stated that the forbidden action ruling should be used is because when I took the ro class alittle over a year ago a situation like this was brought up and this was the instuctors ruling. So either he was wrong or the entire nroi is wrong if this ruling is wrong.

Edited November 8, 2012 by bigfish

[remoandiris]

Maybe you meant to say you'd call the MD to determine if a FA should be made. I'm sure your class' instructor discussed the process to make a FA. ROs don't declare FAs. MDs do.

[bigfish]

correct

[Thomas H]

what should be done if someone finds an unintended hole in the rules that completely underminds the intent of the stage is that it should be declared a forbidden action. Rule 3.2.6. allows for that. I would rule that waiting until after the last shot to perform the manditory reload a forbidden action. I'm a gamer too but when you find a way to perform part of the stage off the clock that completely ruins the stage for the hole match.

I would rule that you should not be RO'ing, since in my poor humble opinion you do not understand the term "freestyle".

Don't even go there. The reason that I stated that the forbidden action ruling should be used is because when I took the ro class alittle over a year ago a situation like this was brought up and this was the instuctors ruling. So either he was wrong or the entire nroi is wrong if this ruling is wrong.

Maybe you meant to say you'd call the MD to determine if a FA should be made. I'm sure your class' instructor discussed the process to make a FA. ROs don't declare FAs. MDs do.

correct

And yet, the MD does not make the call. RMs do. Reference: 2.3.1.1

If you are going to argue together about who should/should not be a Range Officer, it would help to have your facts straight.

I note that 2.3.1.1a specifically includes as a reason to proclaim a Forbidden Action: "...or to prohibit exploit of an unintended course loop-hole in order to circumvent a course requirement and/or gain unfair competitive advantage."

Whether or not I agree that it should be done in this case, it is certainly true that the rules allow it.

I'll note that for this case, I personally think that the WSB is worded badly, and that people should be allowed to shoot it as stated. Next time, the writer of the WSB will know better. That, however, is mere personal opinion, and doesn't have anything to do with what the rules specifically allow with respect to action by the RM.

It was not a safety issue, so the RM doesn't have to change anything. If, however, the RM decides to do so, the rules do allow it.

[LexTalionis]

Sounds like the stage designer wanted to give Limited and Open shooters the option of taking all 12 targets uninterrupted, and he included the mandatory reload to keep the stage legal. I can totally see how that would be the case and have even considered designing a stage like that myself.

Just because it doesn't look like every other speed shoot you've seen doesn't mean it isn't a well-designed stage. I personally think it's cool when designers exercise creativity while keeping things legal.

[remoandiris]

And yet, the MD does not make the call. RMs do. Reference: 2.3.1.1

Appreciate the clarification. I'm sure if fish had been the RO, he would have referenced his personal copy of the rulebook to verify how to proceed. If I had been the RO, I'd have followed the WSB. IMO, there is no such thing as stage designer intent when it comes to freestyle stages.

[SteelDown]

I have designed several speed shoot type stages of a similar nature. I have always specified a mandatory reload after first and before last shot. The results are that the limited and open shooters take all the targets, reload and fire "downrange in the direction of" the targets, then ULSC. Every division has a reload on the clock some just have it earlier than others. This allows each shooter to solve the problem as best fits his equipment.