Jim Norman Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 The application for the 2004 OB/CATS Tactical Challenge is now posted at http://www.OBCATS.com If you have shot at Old Bridge, you know what this match will be like. Come one out and enjoy. This years match is held on October 30 & 31. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillL223 Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 If you haven't shot this match and live in the NE and are interested in multi-gun 3-Gun shooting, don't miss this match. It is a two day event and the stages are "do-able" by any reasonably competent and safe shooter. I've shot this match since its inception and its a lot of fun. So far, my 60 year old body has been able to complete Jim's stages with little pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeydadnu27 Posted September 18, 2004 Share Posted September 18, 2004 Jim Will we be shooting half sat and last half sunday? Do I plan on a full day sunday? round count? slugs buckshot? need the info to start planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmut Posted September 18, 2004 Share Posted September 18, 2004 what are the laws concerning bringing in hicap's to NJ from out of state thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkgsmith Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 I'm with you guys, how about a little info on this match. The web site for the match doesn't show much and it's just around the corner. HELP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted September 20, 2004 Author Share Posted September 20, 2004 OK, Here goes. The match will be 12 stages, 6 on Saturday and 6 on Sunday, this is the same format as last year. There will be several two gun stages, ie., SG and Pistol or Rifle and Pistol. We are finalizing the stages this week. The round count will be posted shortly. stages most likely willnot be posted since line drawings rarely match what you'll see anyway. If you have shot at Old Bridge for one of our regular monthly matches, you know what to expect. We will have a jungle run, SG only, a surprise stage of some type, a few howse clearing type stages, a couple rifle only stages. We will have stages that stress accuracy, speed and power, maybe all at once, maybe on different stages. We generally try to have a balance between the different guns, in other words, it is not a pistol match with a shotgun stage and a rifle stage, you will be equally tested. All stages will count the same towards the match. There will be a cash payout based upon the number of competitors in each division. If a divison has an insufficent number of participants, we will combine it into the most applicable divison so that there is a valid prize level. Look for an update on our website later this week. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBurkett Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 What are the rules for Hi-cap mags there and what is the best airport to fly into? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Not an official response, but the high cap law in NJ says max of 15 rounds, but you can own, purchase, and travel with higher capacity mags as long as they are blocked to 15, and the block need not be permanent. I just picked up an AR 20 rd mag at the local shop, pre blocked, just because I didn't have one. The common NJ thing to do is to stick a wood dowel of the right length in the magazine. A .308 case works great for some 30 round AR mags for example. Newark is a good place to fly into, or at least a lot better then any airport in NY. YMMV Vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted September 21, 2004 Author Share Posted September 21, 2004 I would second all that Vlad said above. Depending on where you are flying from you can also use Philadelphia or Allentown, PA. Jim Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted September 23, 2004 Author Share Posted September 23, 2004 The match rules are now available online. Ammo requirements are also posted. These should be considered as minimum suggested amounts to bring. Actual Round Count may vary. There are still slots available. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 From the OB/Cats Rules page: 7. Scoring: We will use hit factor scoring. Each stage is worth 100 points, we will add up the shooters percentages of the high score for each stage and that is your score for the match. High score wins. The match will be scored as follows. A=5, B=4 C=4, D =2, Miss penalty is -20, Failure To Engage (FTE): -30 Points, Hostage (N/S) is -40, (only one hit per target counts). You must have at least 5 points on a target or you will be assessed a Failure to Neutralize Penalty (FTN) of -10 points. 2 D hits won’t make it. You need at least 1 “A” or a “C-D”. There will be a Procedural Penalty for faulting lines, failure to take cover etc. This will be 10 Points. There will be a Failure To Do Right penalty. The FTDR penalty will be 60 seconds added to your time. Pistol steel will be calibrated for MAJOR Power Factor. On paper targets for rifle, only A-Zone hits count. Hmmmm. Only one hit to count for score, and only one hit to count for penalty. At first view, this sounds reasonable, but I note that a scoring hit is worth 5 points whereas a hit on a Penalty Target is worth -40 points, a ratio of 8:1. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted September 25, 2004 Author Share Posted September 25, 2004 It should be understood that this match is not an IPSC/USPSA Match. It is felt that a NS once hit is gone, BUT that that hit should severly penalize the shooter. THere is also a Failure to Neutralize. In some matches that results in a zero for the stage, we felt that was a bit much for this game. Misses also count heavily since you should know where your bullets are going. Speed counts at this match, but accuracy is highly rewarded. Steel is calibrated heavy, a minor load will knock it down, but not if the steel is hit low. The A-zone only hits are so that we can balance minor rifle and major pistol on the same stage. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted September 27, 2004 Author Share Posted September 27, 2004 Vince, Can I assume that your interest in how we are going to score our "Tactical" match indicates that you may have an interest in attending? Jim Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkgsmith Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Let me ponder the 8:1 remark. Let's see, cop shoots a bad guy, no problem. Same cop shoots an hostage, possible loss of job, home, and 2.5 million in damages. Wow 8:1 seems reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBurkett Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 I wish you were using a standardized rule-set for example the IMGA rules. Good luck with the scoring and the match. Hope you all have a ton of fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted September 27, 2004 Author Share Posted September 27, 2004 We started running this match about 4 years ago and were unaware of the IMGA rules. They have some good ideas. So do a lot of others. We are trying to keep the rules simple, yet cover what needs to be covered. The penalties we imposed were designed to encourage accuracy, but the target presentations are such that you can still shoot fast. One of the niceities of this type of competition is that we can designate shooting orders and postions. This allows us to set up a stage and not have to use 20 walls so you can't see a particular target array. Otherwise we'd not be able to build the match and tear it down in the timeframes alloted. Not to mention the material costs. Examples of stages are exiting from a vehicle, shooting several steel, moving to multiple positions and reengaging the same steels. If we follwed as an example USPSA rules, we would have to allow a total freestyle match and such an array would be out of the question. BTW, Newark Airport is only about 1 hour from the range.... Jim Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeydadnu27 Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Jim If I understand your match scoring, par-time for all stages and time has no effect on scores only if you go beyond time limit. correct???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Let me ponder the 8:1 remark. Let's see, cop shoots a bad guy, no problem. Same cop shoots an hostage, possible loss of job, home, and 2.5 million in damages. Wow 8:1 seems reasonable. Hmmm. An interesting point, but let's take it a step further to keep everything balanced and in perspective. The shoot targets (bad guys) are unarmed (in fact, they don't even have arms to hold arms), so I wonder what the consequences would be for putting two bullet holes into an unarmed assailant? The expression "excessive force" immediately springs to mind, but I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Ok, can we get a new target, perhaps the Metric+ where you get to pick cutouts of various guns to overlay them on the target? Hell, maybe we can make the cutouts black, and then they would even be hardcover. Oh wait ... Most of IPSC uses a headless target because the Metric was not politically correct, and I can sympathize, but I doubt that hanging guns from the shoot targets will make that problem go away. The whole point of the brown side is to tell you that it is a threat. However, if you Mr Pinto are so interested in being practical, then why don't you propose some rules changes where we no longer use paper targets at all, but we start using the balistic dummies now in use by the military and shooting schools? Vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 My retort was in response to Mr. Smith's suggestion that only shooting "hostages" can mean the end of your career, the loss of your life savings, the loss of your assets and so on. However, as I'm sure you know, there've been numerous cases of law abiding people being successfully sued for shooting intruders in their own homes. In any case, I'm generally quite happy with the targets we (IPSC) use at present, although I will be making a proposal to adopt additional paper targets in the future for handgun matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 This match sounds like a hell of a good time. Besides....a three gun match in Jersey! Wooo hooo....almost sounds like a hmmmm? Contradiction in terms or oxymoron. Count me in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 My retort was in response to Mr. Smith's suggestion that only shooting "hostages" can mean the end of your career, the loss of your life savings, the loss of your assets and so on. However, as I'm sure you know, there've been numerous cases of law abiding people being successfully sued for shooting intruders in their own homes. I now better understand your point. It is true enough that any shoot in New Jersey will take you to court, but under IPSC rules we assume that brown targets are threats, whatever the means we use to arrive to that conclusion. In fact the OBCATS 3-gun match addresses your very issue. I don't want to give anything away at least one stage is designed to deal with this problem and would requiere to indentify threats in a fairly clever way. Vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted October 23, 2004 Author Share Posted October 23, 2004 The stages for the 2004 OBCATS Tactical Challenge are now posted on http://www.obcats.com The final round counts looks to be 379 hits broken out as follows: 128 Pistol, 134 Rifle, 96 Shot and 21 Slugs. There are 12 stages planned for the two day format. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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