Vince Pinto Posted August 7, 2004 Share Posted August 7, 2004 Hi folks, Over the past 7 months, a number of issues have been raised in respect of the January 2004 Edition of the IPSC Handgun Rules. After due consideration, the IPSC Rules Committee (under the authority of the IPSC Executive Council), has published a set of official interpretations under the provisions of Section 11.8 of the rulebook. The subject interpretations are available on the "Rules" page of the IPSC website, but you can download a copy of the interpretations in PDF format (17.5Kb) by clicking here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted August 7, 2004 Share Posted August 7, 2004 Thanks for alowing the chamfering IPSC rules Committee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted August 7, 2004 Author Share Posted August 7, 2004 Spook, We had no choice. The votes were unanimously against, but then Yoda walked into the room armed with Tactical Tulips, so we changed our minds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfield Posted August 7, 2004 Share Posted August 7, 2004 Tactical Tulips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunlop Posted August 7, 2004 Share Posted August 7, 2004 I hope the interpretation of flash suppressors as compensators wont apply to the rifle rules. Its tough enough shooting an L1A1 SLR in Standard, leave alone being bumped to Open cause of the birdcage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted August 8, 2004 Author Share Posted August 8, 2004 Phil, The posted interpretations are for Handgun only, and I'm not sure yet how that particular interpretation will be applied to Rifle. Having said that, I note that "compensators" are permitted in Rifle S/A Standard Division, but their length is limited so, if the HG interpretation is adopted verbatim by Rifle, the same maximum length will apply to all "attachments". If the matter is of great concern to you, I suggest you send an email to Tim Andersen (formand@dsf.dk), who is Chairman of the IPSC Rifle Rules Committee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Beverley Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Phil I can't speak for the rifle rules either but with regargs to the shotgun rules I can advise that it is intended to adopt the same interpretation as for HG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunlop Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Thanks Vince and Neil, I will e mail Tim, I had a feeling the definition for handgun would be persuasive for the other disciplines, but think it a bit harsh in the case of the SLR which has a pretty useless flash hider that exceeds the 90mm rule. P.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Buff Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 Tnx Vince...Clears up at leat 1 Q I did have.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 Arnie/Troy, Do the posted IPSC rule interpretations apply to USPSA, or does USPSA have to post our own interpretations (even if they say the same thing as the IPSC interpretations)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 I'd say that one of two things has to happen: First, if the IPSC rule and the USPSA rule are the same, then the interpretation applies in the US. John Amidon/the BOD might have to have some sort of posting/notice to that effect. YMMV--that's just my opinion and how I'd do it. Of course, if the BOD doesn't agree with the interpretation, then I guess they could publish their own... Second, for USPSA rules, and for those IPSC rules interpretations that don't fit our needs, the D-NROI/BOD would publish their own interpretation or clarification. I think that the IPSC rules interpretations will be helpful, and a good place to start with questions that don't exactly fit the rules as written. Again, this is only my opinion--Mr. Amidon and the BOD would have the final say. HTH. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted August 9, 2004 Author Share Posted August 9, 2004 BDH, I think Troy sums it up nicely. Also, in case you didn't know, both Mike Voigt and John Amidon remain active members of the Rules Coordinating Committee, so it's not as if they didn't have any input on the issues which were covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Hi Vince, Just to clarify item 8.2.5 (page 2, "...and the handgun is either unloaded or in a ready condition stated in Section 8.1.") This means if I'm in production and in the middle of the stage I decide to reholster, the requirement should be that I put the hammer down first? Also, just wondering about the prohibition of color change of the gun in appendix D4, item 19.1. This means I can no longer chrome my blued CZ, right? I'll take the spanking and ask, why? Thanks a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted August 10, 2004 Author Share Posted August 10, 2004 Just to clarify item 8.2.5 (page 2, "...and the handgun is either unloaded or in a ready condition stated in Section 8.1.") This means if I'm in production and in the middle of the stage I decide to reholster, the requirement should be that I put the hammer down first? You realise that the only change to Rule 8.2.5 was from "during a COF" to "after the start signal", right? Anyway, to answer your question, it depends on what sort of gun you're using in PD. If it's a DAO (e.g. Glock), then you don't have to do anything special. If the gun is a SA/DA (e.g. CZ, Beretta etc.), then you must either decock the gun or apply the safety, and my guess is that most people would do the latter. Also, just wondering about the prohibition of color change of the gun in appendix D4, item 19.1. This means I can no longer chrome my blued CZ, right? I'll take the spanking and ask, why? Correct. PD rules do not allow anything other than "minor detailing", and all we did was to clarify that changing the finish and/or colour of your gun is not considered to be "minor detailing" - it's actually a total change. Moreover, doing so would be applying aftermarket treatments, and Point 20 lists the only aftermarket items which are permitted. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 You realise that the only change to Rule 8.2.5 was from "during a COF" to "after the start signal", right? Jeez, should have taken the cue... speed shooting = speed reading = crash and burn. Thanks a lot Uncle Vinny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Andersen Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Hi Phil. Re. flamehiders, they will be considered as ports or compensators for Rifle. I do see your point, but unless somebody comes up with a bulletproof definition of a flamehider that is in no way a port or comp, we have to treat them all alike. Furthermore, if your flamehider does not improve your shootimg, you can remove it to remain in Standard Div.. Best regards, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhu Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 Hi, I'm a bit late perhaps, but I was out. I have a question about 5.6.3.3 - I simply cannot understand it. What is considered to be the "face value"? Please advise, I really cannot understand what that sentence mean. Thanks! Ivan "The Terrible" KETLER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 Arnie/Troy,Do the posted IPSC rule interpretations apply to USPSA, or does USPSA have to post our own interpretations (even if they say the same thing as the IPSC interpretations)? Big Huggy, The posted interpretations to which you are referring in this post, apply only to IPSC. John Amidon makes interpretations for USPSA and the BOD either approves or overrides his decision. His interpretations will be posted on the USPSA member's page. Arnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted August 24, 2004 Author Share Posted August 24, 2004 I have a question about 5.6.3.3 - I simply cannot understand it. What is considered to be the "face value"? Please advise, I really cannot understand what that sentence mean. The expression "face value" is the same as "WYSIWYG". In other words, whatever is shown on the display is used "as is" (no rounding up/down, no truncating). For examples, if a match uses "Brand A" bullet scales and a bullet weight is displayed as 115.1 grains then you use 115.1 in the initial calculation. If a match uses "Brand B" bullet scales and a bullet weight is displayed as 115.123 grains then you use 115.123 in the initial calculation. The same applies to the chrono reading. However the final result ignores everything after the decimal place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhu Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Thanks for the previous clarification. Right now I'm translating the interpretations, and I have a question regarding the 5.7.1. The new sentence says: ... is entitled to retire, under the authority and supervision of theofficiating Range Officer, to repair his firearm, ... My weak English language command makes me uncertain how should I understand this part. By my interpretation the competitor is entitled to retire under the authority and supervision of the officiating RO (that is, unload and show clear, etc), and then he may go whereever he wishes without any further RO assistance. In fact, I'm almost certain that this is how you guys meant this rule to be interpreted, I'm just ask to be sure. Am I right in this interpretation? TIA Ivan "The Terrible" KETLER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhu Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Yet another question, re: 10.2.8. ... will not be penalized for using the other hand (i.e. the other arm from the shoulder to the hand) ... The question is, does this "i.e." interpretation actually exclude the hand itself, or the weak hand (the palm, fingers, and all) are included? For me it's not clear. TIA Ivan "The Terrible" KETLER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted August 31, 2004 Author Share Posted August 31, 2004 By my interpretation the competitor is entitled to retire under the authority and supervision of the officiating RO (that is, unload and show clear, etc), and then he may go whereever he wishes without any further RO assistance. Correct. The question is, does this "i.e." interpretation actually exclude the hand itself, or the weak hand (the palm, fingers, and all) are included? For me it's not clear. The meaning of "other hand" now includes everything from the tips of the fingers up to and including the shoulder. Hence bracing yourself against a barricade by using, say, your forearm or upper arm, attracts a penalty. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Correct. PD rules do not allow anything other than "minor detailing", and all we did was to clarify that changing the finish and/or colour of your gun is not considered to be "minor detailing" - it's actually a total change. Moreover, doing so would be applying aftermarket treatments, and Point 20 lists the only aftermarket items which are permitted. Hope this helps. Vince, another clarification on some issues: 1. I take it I also could not chrome any blued mags that come with the gun. But I can do so for aftermarket mags? 2. I want to round just a teeny bit some sharp edges in the the beavertail with sand paper. Is this still considered as "minor detailing"? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted November 4, 2004 Author Share Posted November 4, 2004 Vince, another clarification on some issues:1. I take it I also could not chrome any blued mags that come with the gun. But I can do so for aftermarket mags? 2. I want to round just a teeny bit some sharp edges in the the beavertail with sand paper. Is this still considered as "minor detailing"? 1. Correct. 2. Removing burrs is not a problem. Reshaping the beavertail is not permitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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