My 625 took a dump and stopped working

[71Commander]

Another question.

Is this something that I should be pulling the crane off and dropping oil into occasionally?

Nah, not really. You'll just collect crap in the oil. Throw in a shim and get some sparkplug gappers, check the gap before the season starts and make sure you check it on all 6 cylinders since the yoke can get a little eccentric. .002 is the dead minimum gap but you want some leeway, shim it to .004 and you'll be fine. Also if you've never taken a cylinder assembly apart, it's threaded backwards and very sensitive to over-torquing. Put a dummy clip in before you start unscrewing (right-loosey!) and use blue loctite when you reassemble. You don't want much more force than feeling it bottom out and then giving it a gentle nudge more.

Matt

Larry Potterfield to the rescue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmYzAVgDBkY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d15PwZbeoI

[Waltermitty]

I ordered them. 10 to a pack.

When they get here, I'll give em a try.

Thanks all. Big help.

I have an older version of this tool: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=26886/Product/EXTRACTOR-ROD-TOOL It makes all the difference in the world.

[Matt Griffin]

Well now, I would point out that in neither video did he mention that it's reverse-threaded. I'm betting there's a lot of bent extractor rods out there as a result.

Matt

[Waltermitty]

Well now, I would point out that in neither video did he mention that it's reverse-threaded. I'm betting there's a lot of bent extractor rods out there as a result.

Matt

I'm here to testify. The threads are left-handed.

[71Commander]

Update:

Pulling the cylinder to the rear, the flash gap measures .012 9/10th of the way through. The cylinder on the right side (non swing out) is almost touching the forcing cone, not allowing the feeler gauge to come all of the way through. Only size that will clear it is .002. I tried all six chambers. No change.

It seems like the cylinder has a slight tilt (end play?)to it.

[Matt Griffin]

Update:

Pulling the cylinder to the rear, the flash gap measures .012 9/10th of the way through. The cylinder on the right side (non swing out) is almost touching the forcing cone, not allowing the feeler gauge to come all of the way through. Only size that will clear it is .002. I tried all six chambers. No change.

It seems like the cylinder has a slight tilt (end play?)to it.

Sounds like a bent yoke, actually. If the forcing cone face is clean and flat, you might have to do some creative hammer work.

[71Commander]

Update:

Pulling the cylinder to the rear, the flash gap measures .012 9/10th of the way through. The cylinder on the right side (non swing out) is almost touching the forcing cone, not allowing the feeler gauge to come all of the way through. Only size that will clear it is .002. I tried all six chambers. No change.

It seems like the cylinder has a slight tilt (end play?)to it.

Sounds like a bent yoke, actually. If the forcing cone face is clean and flat, you might have to do some creative hammer work.

Gun has never been dropped or hit. How could the crane get bent?

Unless years of the holster (Ghost) locking up on that section of the frame.

[Matt Griffin]

Update:

Pulling the cylinder to the rear, the flash gap measures .012 9/10th of the way through. The cylinder on the right side (non swing out) is almost touching the forcing cone, not allowing the feeler gauge to come all of the way through. Only size that will clear it is .002. I tried all six chambers. No change.

It seems like the cylinder has a slight tilt (end play?)to it.

Sounds like a bent yoke, actually. If the forcing cone face is clean and flat, you might have to do some creative hammer work.

Gun has never been dropped or hit. How could the crane get bent?

Unless years of the holster (Ghost) locking up on that section of the frame.

I'm perfectly willing to be wrong, but it certainly sounds eccentric. If the gap is the same way on all six cylinders then that pretty much has to be it outside of a funny forcing cone. I wouldn't think it would be the holster, the frame is a heck of a lot stronger than the yoke. Give S&W a call, see what they say.

Me, I'd hit it with a hammer. Because it would be the third time.

[Waltermitty]

Update:

Pulling the cylinder to the rear, the flash gap measures .012 9/10th of the way through. The cylinder on the right side (non swing out) is almost touching the forcing cone, not allowing the feeler gauge to come all of the way through. Only size that will clear it is .002. I tried all six chambers. No change.

It seems like the cylinder has a slight tilt (end play?)to it.

To varying degrees the face of the forcing cone will not be perpendicular to the axis of the barrel. The bias should open slightly to the opening side of the frame.

Your measurement sounds like a lot. Make sure there is no carbon or lead build up effecting your measurements. You may have to be quite aggressive with a brass brush and solvent to clean off tough build up on the forcing cone. I have a special tool that actually uses wire screen to scrape carbon out of the cone. If you've never had a scraping session on your cone, it may need a cleaning. Think along the lines of what your dental hygienist does to your teeth during cleaning. In any case, your first effort will be to make what you have work. As you no doubt have found, this is a difficult measurement to make.

Once you get your bearings (shims) in, you can start the process of fitting them up. If the clearance is only .002", that's where I would start. Put in a .002" bearing, assemble the gun and check endshake. The shims push the cylinder back in the gun to set barrel gap. You must still have some endshake for the gun to run well. If you can feel some, that will be enough even if you can't measure it, but it cannot be zero for the gun to run smoothly. A gun that is "tight" when cold will not run when it gets hot.

[Waltermitty]

Before resorting to a hammer, measure the amount of the forcing cone extending through the frame to where it makes the barrel gap. My guess is you will see the difference on the two sides of the gun that will account for some of the difference.

[71Commander]

I'm gonna clean it, measure it, put shims in it and as a last resort, do like they told me to do in the Army, hit it with a hammer before sending it in for repairs.

[Toolguy]

If it checks the same for all chambers, that points to the back of the barrel being at an angle. I have seen a lot of them (back end of barrel) that were not square to the bore. There is a cutter that goes on the forcing cone tool to square that up with.

[71Commander]

If it checks the same for all chambers, that points to the back of the barrel being at an angle. I have seen a lot of them (back end of barrel) that were not square to the bore. There is a cutter that goes on the forcing cone tool to square that up with.

Before I get to that point, shouldn't I address the .012 gap first?

[Waltermitty]

I'm gonna clean it, measure it, put shims in it and as a last resort, do like they told me to do in the Army, hit it with a hammer before sending it in for repairs.

Yeah, and I was that guy at Depot Maintenence saying why the H*ll does it look like they hit it with a hammer?!?

[Waltermitty]

If it checks the same for all chambers, that points to the back of the barrel being at an angle. I have seen a lot of them (back end of barrel) that were not square to the bore. There is a cutter that goes on the forcing cone tool to square that up with.

Before I get to that point, shouldn't I address the .012 gap first?

Make sure you get it clean, then see what's left. There is a Jerry Kuhnhausen shop manual that addresses solutions on about page 31.

I say get it running and see how happy/unhappy you are.

[professor]

Update:

Pulling the cylinder to the rear, the flash gap measures .012 9/10th of the way through. The cylinder on the right side (non swing out) is almost touching the forcing cone, not allowing the feeler gauge to come all of the way through. Only size that will clear it is .002. I tried all six chambers. No change.

It seems like the cylinder has a slight tilt (end play?)to it.

Sounds like a bent yoke, actually. If the forcing cone face is clean and flat, you might have to do some creative hammer work.

Gun has never been dropped or hit. How could the crane get bent?

Unless years of the holster (Ghost) locking up on that section of the frame.

If the cylinder has been regularly 'flipped' open after pushing the cylinder release, the weight of the cylinder stopping can torque the crane and eventually twist it.

[71Commander]

Update:

Pulling the cylinder to the rear, the flash gap measures .012 9/10th of the way through. The cylinder on the right side (non swing out) is almost touching the forcing cone, not allowing the feeler gauge to come all of the way through. Only size that will clear it is .002. I tried all six chambers. No change.

It seems like the cylinder has a slight tilt (end play?)to it.

Sounds like a bent yoke, actually. If the forcing cone face is clean and flat, you might have to do some creative hammer work.

Gun has never been dropped or hit. How could the crane get bent?

Unless years of the holster (Ghost) locking up on that section of the frame.

If the cylinder has been regularly 'flipped' open after pushing the cylinder release, the weight of the cylinder stopping can torque the crane and eventually twist it.

That's the pits.

Got my shims. Will work on it tomorrow.

[cas]

Well now, I would point out that in neither video did he mention that it's reverse-threaded. I'm betting there's a lot of bent extractor rods out there as a result.

Matt

Before 1959 they had right hand thread. So saying one or the other would have been wrong. Though it wouldn't have killed them to take an extra 5-10 seconds and explain which is which.

[71Commander]

Do I need a heat gun to take the cylinder off? It won't budge.

Edited June 27, 2012 by 71Commander

[Waltermitty]

Do I need a heat gun to take the cylinder off? It won't budge.

I have not used a heat gun. But you do have to make sure you're turning it the "correct" way (remember thread direction) put your moon clip with empty fired brass in the cylinder to help hold the star (it may just be in your mind) and turn the dern thing off. It is very fine thread and will have to be convinced.

I do not use thread locker, I just use TiteEnough.

Let me back up. You *do* have the crane out and the cylinder/ejector out of the gun right?

Edited June 27, 2012 by Waltermitty

[71Commander]

Do I need a heat gun to take the cylinder off? It won't budge.

I have not used a heat gun. But you do have to make sure you're turning it the "correct" way (remember thread direction) put your moon clip with empty fired brass in the cylinder to help hold the star (it may just be in your mind) and turn the dern thing off. It is very fine thread and will have to be convinced.

I do not use thread locker, I just use TiteEnough.

Let me back up. You *do* have the crane out and the cylinder/ejector out of the gun right?

Yeah.

Gun (ejection rod) is in the vice and locked up. Turning clockwise to remove cylinder.

[Waltermitty]

Do I need a heat gun to take the cylinder off? It won't budge.

I have not used a heat gun. But you do have to make sure you're turning it the "correct" way (remember thread direction) put your moon clip with empty fired brass in the cylinder to help hold the star (it may just be in your mind) and turn the dern thing off. It is very fine thread and will have to be convinced.

I do not use thread locker, I just use TiteEnough.

Let me back up. You *do* have the crane out and the cylinder/ejector out of the gun right?

Yeah.

Gun (ejection rod) is in the vice and locked up. Turning clockwise to remove cylinder.

That's one reason I bought the tool I linked. I so disliked the process using other methods. Take care not to damage the rod with that vice. I used a heavy piece of leather as a cushion.