slide hanging up

[isleman75]

A poorly fit bushing can sometimes put pressure on one side of the end of the barrel, pushing the breech end in odd ways

Hmmm...post #7

It's amazing how important each and every part for the 1911/2011 can be. The barrel/bushing proper set up is huge. I almost went with a Briley in my 2011 Limited build but decided against it in favor of the Brown bushing that was the closest fit to my Schuemann barrel. I'm glad I went with it. The Briley is good in theory, but as you've discovered, just adds another component to a design that has no "problems" and is open to possible failure.

You will still have to "fit" the Brown bushing, though. A slight relief in two areas to allow for complete, up and down, friction-free movement during action cycling. This, and barrel hood fitment to the breech are the heart of any 1911/2011's accuracy potential.

Good luck with the new bushing!

[Powder Finger]

sounds like "Barrel bump" , the barrel feet are hitting the slide stop before the barrel is all the way up in the slide.

[fastarget]

Can be, but it does not do it all the time. Sometimes you reassemble the gun and it does it everytime hand cycling, then it does not and only when pointed down. I blued and checked lock up , it was even on the legs. I will blue again

The real question is, why gradually getting worse over the last few month. Yesterday, took it out to practice and try the results of polishing the bushing, and after 100 rounds the extractor lip broke off. so it has a new one today. Gun is probably over 10 yrs old, I am the second owner I have put 8K on it, the previous owner said 5 (probably 8 or 10)

[isleman75]

Can be, but it does not do it all the time. Sometimes you reassemble the gun and it does it everytime hand cycling, then it does not and only when pointed down. I blued and checked lock up , it was even on the legs. I will blue again

The real question is, why gradually getting worse over the last few month. Yesterday, took it out to practice and try the results of polishing the bushing, and after 100 rounds the extractor lip broke off. so it has a new one today. Gun is probably over 10 yrs old, I am the second owner I have put 8K on it, the previous owner said 5 (probably 8 or 10)

Did you change the Briley bushing for a Brown standard bushing?

[fastarget]

Not yet, the brown will be in tomorrow by ups............I polished the barrel with 1200, then did the same on the id of the bushing, and also in the inner and outer race of the slide bushing( some of the nitriding had worn off, and as you move the bushing back and for on the barrel it feels scratcy).

It would hang but further on in the lock up cycle , until it became smooth. I can still see some light scratch/wear on the surface of the barrel , but nothing like it used to be.

[isleman75]

Do this quick test for bushing/barrel binding just before lock up;

Put your barrel and bushing in your slide without anything else. Slide the barrel all the way back to the breech, but not up into firing position. When holding the top of the slide in the bottom of your hand, you will look at the open underside of the slide and see the barrel.

Grab the lower locking lugs (ones that ride up on your slide stop) with your fingers, holding the barrel straight and evenly like it would be in the gun, and slowly move the barrel hood along the breech face into full lock up in the slide. The barrel should just drop into this position with no pushing required. If you have to push down on the lugs to get it to be in the fully locked position, the bushing is imparting pressure on the end of the barrel.

When you fit the new Brown bushing, you will actually remove more material (carefully and slowly with very fine cratex) from the front lower ring of the bushing, and rear upper portion. What this does is allow the barrel to tilt up at the rear into lockup in the slide. If a bushing fit is too tight and causing binding, it will indeed cause the problems you describe.

Good Luck!

[CAB33]

This, and barrel hood fitment to the breech are the heart of any 1911/2011's accuracy potential.

Forgive me if this is changing the subject to much...

Explain to me how the "barrel hood fitment to the breech are the heart of any 1911/2011's accuracy potential".

[isleman75]

Mr. Kunhausencan explain it much better, but you would be very surprised at how much the hood fitment can affect accuracy. I personally have witnessed guns firing in a Ransom Rest that printed 2-3" groups at 15 yards, and then were reduced to 1" after discovering and filing down a rub mark on the hood where it meets the slide. I am no scientist, but pressures like this can and obviously do cause inaccuracy, mostly because of repeatability.

The goal in every semi-automatic firearm is for every single part to re-align perfectly in the exact same position as before a shot, each and every time. If it doesn't do this, obviously a bullet can be placed in a different spot, however so slight..

[isleman75]

Something else that really opened my eyes to the difference between custom 1911/2011s and run of the mill factory assembled guns is this;

Next time you have access to any new or even slightly used factory built 1911, pick one up, rack the slide and check for empty. Now, take your thumb and press on the top of the barrel near the breech. Many factory guns, especially early Colts will allow the barrel to actually shift down a few thousandths of an inch, some very visibly with the naked eye. Granted, many makers are getting better at this.

In a custom build, lower lugs are fit precisely the way they should be, very snugly to the slide stop at full lock up, and this is apparent when looking at a well-fit gun's slide stop. There will be two very light, but usually square shaped (sometimes slightly rounded edges) spots on the slide stop shaft where the lugs ramp up on it at every shot. Obviously, this is a very tedious process than can take hours, so is cost-prohibitive in all mass-produced guns.

Hope this helps a bit..

[fastarget]

Mr. Kunhausencan explain it much better, but you would be very surprised at how much the hood fitment can affect accuracy. I personally have witnessed guns firing in a Ransom Rest that printed 2-3" groups at 15 yards, and then were reduced to 1" after discovering and filing down a rub mark on the hood where it meets the slide. I am no scientist, but pressures like this can and obviously do cause inaccuracy, mostly because of repeatability.

The goal in every semi-automatic firearm is for every single part to re-align perfectly in the exact same position as before a shot, each and every time. If it doesn't do this, obviously a bullet can be placed in a different spot, however so slight..

So are you saying the hood on the breech side of the lugs should not be contacting the slide in any way? mine seems to.

And yes the gun is running well now that I polished the old bushing(still waiting on ups today for the new one) but the groups are not pretty..............it seems like sometimes it groups other times not.

[isleman75]

Mr. Kunhausencan explain it much better, but you would be very surprised at how much the hood fitment can affect accuracy. I personally have witnessed guns firing in a Ransom Rest that printed 2-3" groups at 15 yards, and then were reduced to 1" after discovering and filing down a rub mark on the hood where it meets the slide. I am no scientist, but pressures like this can and obviously do cause inaccuracy, mostly because of repeatability.

The goal in every semi-automatic firearm is for every single part to re-align perfectly in the exact same position as before a shot, each and every time. If it doesn't do this, obviously a bullet can be placed in a different spot, however so slight..

So are you saying the hood on the breech side of the lugs should not be contacting the slide in any way? mine seems to.

And yes the gun is running well now that I polished the old bushing(still waiting on ups today for the new one) but the groups are not pretty..............it seems like sometimes it groups other times not.

Actually, there are a few different schools of thought on the breech contact issue. Thoughts on it have also evolved over the years to what seems to now be the general consensus among respected smiths. That generally accepted view would be that you should see a tiny amount of daylight between the two short sides of the hood (hold the slide/barrel up to the light and look at it from above and below) and very light contact at the long end, right up against the breech face. That contact should be very even, with the hood being very very straight.

This is also a very tedious process since all three sides generally have to have at least a small amount removed with a file and/or sandpaper. I lapped mine in with rubbing compound/simicrome and the Schuemann barrel I used didn't require very much removal of material for excellent fit. Higher quality components are held to tighter tolerance and usually require a little less work than cheaper components.

Jack Weigand is from the old school of 1911 smiths and does it right. He's got some really nice videos showing his mill fixture for fitting barrels. Very cool..

[fastarget]

Great info thanks, Ok, so what about the top of the hood(the area with the caliber and brand), you do see evidence of contact on those areas.

[isleman75]

Yes, you will see contact there, but not hard contact. The top of the barrel makes slight contact as the upper lugs disengage and the slide begins to move rearward when a shot is fired. Same as with the barrel hood/breech- ever so slight contact, just not hard contact.. Keep it all oiled very well. I keep mine and guns I work on very wet with oil in this area, especially for our game..

When fitting a barrel, and with gun partially assembled with frame, slide, barrel, link, and slide stop, there should be something like .006 (very small, but clearance nonetheless) between the top of the barrel and the lowest part and rear of the lugs in the slide. There are special tools to measure this just inside of the open port with slide pulled back slightly as if ejecting a round, and barrel at link-down, but you can make do with very narrow shim stock and careful work with dial calipers.

Clearance is made for this by cutting the frame bed (where the barrel rests at link-down) down, little by little and very carefully. I wouldn't recommend this work unless you have experience with working on 1911s and know exactly how timing works in relation to this, the link length, vertical impact area, horizontal impact area, and frame bed.

Your gun will most likely not need attention in the areas described above since it functioned reliably for so long before acting up.

Again, good luck.

[fastarget]

Thank you for your help, it actually built more of an awareness to looks at things I had not thought off.

Received and fitted the bushing, a slow job, but I got it to where I could use a metal polish for lapping, and then some Rouge. So har no hanging up, not even pointed down. It looks like I have about a thousand or 1.5K of difference between barrel OD and bushing ID. (I had gotten the briley to over 3 thousands and was still catching pointed down). I think I will let it break in on its own from here.

Oiled reassembled, went out to the desert close by and put 50 rounds through it, no issues.....and......I see good groups again....I will have to confirm that sunday. Have a match tomorrow, so going to go play.

[mda]

Thank you for your help, it actually built more of an awareness to looks at things I had not thought off.

Received and fitted the bushing, a slow job, but I got it to where I could use a metal polish for lapping, and then some Rouge. So har no hanging up, not even pointed down. It looks like I have about a thousand or 1.5K of difference between barrel OD and bushing ID. (I had gotten the briley to over 3 thousands and was still catching pointed down). I think I will let it break in on its own from here.

Oiled reassembled, went out to the desert close by and put 50 rounds through it, no issues.....and......I see good groups again....I will have to confirm that sunday. Have a match tomorrow, so going to go play.

Sounds like the briley bushing was worn out if the plating if pealing off. Once that starts you will continue to have problems until you replace it. Just call or order directly from briley.

MDA

[pyrrhic3gun]

The last gun I saw doing this had a very slight "step" worn into the rear of each of the locking lugs in the slide.

The barrel didn't have steps worn into its lugs, so I guess the slide was too soft.

After replacing the slide and barrel, the thing functions flawlessly.

The rejected slide was marked "Colt's MK IV/Series '70". I don't know what the source was for the slide, so I can't guarantee the authenticity or the date of manufacture.