.223 rem made easy on an 550B

[olp73]

Hi

The goal for this post is to get some input on have to load .223 rem on a 550b as easy as possible using two tool heads. I am new to rifle reloading so any inputs are welcome. One of my primary goals are avoiding chamfering the inside and outside of the case neck after the cases are trimmed to length.

First tool head

1. Universal decapping die

2. Dillon 1200 case trimmer

3. Lyman M-die or some form of die that adjust the neck size/tension

I thought a decapping die in station one was a good idea since some brass needs swaging of the primer pocket. The trimmer follows in station 2 and the in station 3 some thing that adjusts the neck tension. I might be wrong but the Dillon sizing die that comes attached to the trimmer does not have an expander ball right? At least I can't see have that would function. Another reason is that some form of neck expander might knock of some burrs from the trimming. Still I wonder if an expander will stretch the case after it is trimmed? How has Dillon meant this to function any how?

Second tool head

1. Universal decapping die/ RSBS x-die

2. Powder die

3. Bullet seater

4. Lee factory crimp or other crimping die.

I am going for a new decapping die in station one might not be necessary but at least it will clear the hole from tumbling media. The powder die has to be in station 2 on a Dillon 550b. Station 4 gets a bullet seater and in number 4 I considered some form of crimping die. I am very much in doubt if the crimping die is necessary, but it too might knock off some burrs and if I use a RCBS M-die it might be good. I am not a big fan of crimping and all I do to my pistol rounds is removing the bell.

I am also considering an x-die if the cases don't stretch as much in my chamber (Wylde) it might be a good solution.

Edited March 28, 2012 by olp73

[PKT1106]

I had a similar set-up with my 1200 Trimmer. My first tool head had a full length size die in S1, trimmer in S3. The second tool head had Universal decapper in S1 (to clear media), Powder drop is S2, Bullet seater in S3 and crimp in S4. If I had to swage/chamfer/debur, I would do that after resizing and trimming.

You should really size before trimming because the sizing can make the case different.

The Dillon trimmer dies do not have expander balls for the necks.

Lots of people crimp for semi-auto guns, lots don't. This is up to you and your rifle. Lots of people don't crimp for bolt guns, some do. Once again, up to you and your rifle.

[olp73]

I had a similar set-up with my 1200 Trimmer. My first tool head had a full length size die in S1, trimmer in S3. The second tool head had Universal decapper in S1 (to clear media), Powder drop is S2, Bullet seater in S3 and crimp in S4. If I had to swage/chamfer/debur, I would do that after resizing and trimming.

You should really size before trimming because the sizing can make the case different.

The Dillon trimmer dies do not have expander balls for the necks.

Lots of people crimp for semi-auto guns, lots don't. This is up to you and your rifle. Lots of people don't crimp for bolt guns, some do. Once again, up to you and your rifle.

Are you telling me that I should not size in the Dillon die, but use an ordinary full lengths sizing die in the first station? What purpose does the Dillon die serve then? And can I adjust it so it doesn’t size the brass again. Overworking the cases can’t be good?

[VinceU1]

IIRC, the Dillon trimmer spaces on the shoulder of the case. So the case needs to be resized for the Dillon to work correctly. However I thought the Dillon also resized the case as it trimmed it. I'm probably wrong on that point. Also, I wouldn't put a sizing die in your second tool head as it's not needed. Just put the universal decapper in to make sure the flash hole is open. Also, I've had cases where the cleaning medium was very tightly packed into the case. It's kind of nice to know that's happened before you dump powder all over everything. That's one of those "Been there, done that, you get the T-shirt 'cuz I don't want it" kind of things.

[RiggerJJ]

The trimmer die for the 1200 IS also a full length size die. No sizing of any sort after the trimmer is required, in fact if you are messing with the neck (expanding) you are loosing the neck tension that the trom dies gives you.

Check with Dillon, but when I set up my 1050 for 2 head process they told me a Dillon sizer/decapper/expander in 1, then trim and tumble to remove lube (primer pocket swaging done on the 1050 or eith a super swager).

The only time after that to mess with the neck is on the loading head and its just a slight bell to allow the bullet in, which also removes the burr. Also after seating remove the neck bell with a slight crimp.

JJ

[olp73]

The only time after that to mess with the neck is on the loading head and its just a slight bell to allow the bullet in, which also removes the burr. Also after seating remove the neck bell with a slight crimp.

So, how do you mess with the neck? Like which type of die in which station in tool headtwo? I am not able to see the difference between doing this in the last station in tool head one and doing it in tool head two, but maybe you or someone else can explain? The Idea was to use the M-die to do the slight belling, deburr and adjust the neck since the Dillon trim die does not have the neck expander. Now I have understood that a full length sizer die with an expander ball in station one is a wise choice.

I still don't understand how the trim die really works thou??

Edited April 1, 2012 by olp73

[RiggerJJ]

The trim die is a full length sizing die. When it comes outa that (after expanding it with the 1st sizer/decapper) it is ready for a bullet with tight neck tension. You actually dont need the 1st sizing die, but most use it to decap and dress the neck with a expander ball, but the expander ball leaves the neck tension loose. Then bell the neck ever so slightly so as to not damage the bullet (just the very top of the neck) and seat a bullet, then just crimp the bell out with a crimp die.

JJ

Edited April 2, 2012 by RiggerJJ

[olp73]

The trim die is a full length sizing die. When it comes outa that (after expanding it with the 1st sizer/decapper) it is ready for a bullet with tight neck tension. You actually dont need the 1st sizing die, but most use it to decap and dress the neck with a expander ball, but the expander ball leaves the neck tension loose. Then bell the neck ever so slightly so as to not damage the bullet (just the very top of the neck) and seat a bullet, then just crimp the bell out with a crimp die.

JJ

.........and for belling the case you use?

[RiggerJJ]

On the 1050 the swage station top die "hold down rod" has a bell function. I use this die on my 650 as well for the same reason, to bell or slightly expand the top pf the neck for ease of bullet insertion and deburing the inside of the neck. Then the crimp die removes the bell and deburrs the outside of neck. The 2 head process is just so easy peasy for mass production of precision rifle ammo for 3gunning I couldn't think of doing it any other way. The less you handle the brass the more ammo you can produce in a given amount of time, leaving more time for shooting...

JJ

[Mike in CT]

"belling" 223 rounds? I think this is the first I have heard of doing that. I was not aware of any dies that are made to do this. Granted, I am a seasoned pistol reloader just starting with 223.

I have a Hornady LNL and just bought the Dillon trimmer and swager tool. I called Dillon to hear what they would say and this is basically what I was told.

"You can or cannot size in station one, the trimmer is a sizer and some tension is needed on the case to keep it from spinning when being trimmed. It is a good idea to run some sort of neck expander ball after the trimmer as the trimmer die has been known to size the neck a bit small".

Now if you call Dillon and get another person you may get another answer, but that is the one I got last week.

I am of the opinion that reloading is a bit more art than science and each of us seem to get a setup that works but may/may not work for the next guy.

I am likely going to do some test runs as I set up the trimmer and explore the idea of using an RCBS 'small' resizer/decapper with neck expander ball, then trim, then run a neck expander die just to ensure there are no burrs and the neck is ready for may Montana Gold 55gr FMJs. I am going to check if chamfer will be needed. I am going to set aside a few hours to get things set up and then hopefully start some production runs. I have already loaded and test fired test rounds and have my powder charge dialed in.

Mike

[olp73]

"belling" 223 rounds? I think this is the first I have heard of doing that. I was not aware of any dies that are made to do this. Granted, I am a seasoned pistol reloader just starting with 223.

I have a Hornady LNL and just bought the Dillon trimmer and swager tool. I called Dillon to hear what they would say and this is basically what I was told.

"You can or cannot size in station one, the trimmer is a sizer and some tension is needed on the case to keep it from spinning when being trimmed. It is a good idea to run some sort of neck expander ball after the trimmer as the trimmer die has been known to size the neck a bit small".

Now if you call Dillon and get another person you may get another answer, but that is the one I got last week.

I am of the opinion that reloading is a bit more art than science and each of us seem to get a setup that works but may/may not work for the next guy.

I am likely going to do some test runs as I set up the trimmer and explore the idea of using an RCBS 'small' resizer/decapper with neck expander ball, then trim, then run a neck expander die just to ensure there are no burrs and the neck is ready for may Montana Gold 55gr FMJs. I am going to check if chamfer will be needed. I am going to set aside a few hours to get things set up and then hopefully start some production runs. I have already loaded and test fired test rounds and have my powder charge dialed in.

Mike

Calling Dillon seems like a great idea. It is interesting that they say that you should size the case neck after the trimmer die has done its thing. If I run a FL sizer I station one (before the trimmer) my setup will actually do it twice since the M-die also adjust the neck apart from giving it a slight belling.

The setup might work out find but sizing and adjust the neck several times might overwork the brass. I read in another post that it is possible to partly size the brass in the FL die and partly in the trimmer die, but nothing about how the dies are setup or which die does what. The post also stated that this was how the Dillon guys did it. If I’m not mistaking it was Brian Enos himself who wrote it.

Anyone has a clue what he is talking about?

[Number99]

I may be totally off on this but this is what I have found. Some military brass may have been shot in a large chamber. One pass thru a FL die MAY not get it back to where you need to be. 8 out of 10 will size right down. 2 will be close but not match the others. Using both a FL die and having the trim die down far enough to bump a little would help with the spring back on those big cases. I didn't have mine set this way but I think I'll try next time I need to run. I tried to do it sizing in one, and just having the trim die trim, and running a neck size die after the trim die. Still ended up with some big cases and I had FL die right where it needed to be.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Number99

[Shadowrider]

"belling" 223 rounds? I think this is the first I have heard of doing that. I was not aware of any dies that are made to do this. Granted, I am a seasoned pistol reloader just starting with 223.

I have a Hornady LNL and just bought the Dillon trimmer and swager tool. I called Dillon to hear what they would say and this is basically what I was told.

"You can or cannot size in station one, the trimmer is a sizer and some tension is needed on the case to keep it from spinning when being trimmed. It is a good idea to run some sort of neck expander ball after the trimmer as the trimmer die has been known to size the neck a bit small".

Now if you call Dillon and get another person you may get another answer, but that is the one I got last week.

I am of the opinion that reloading is a bit more art than science and each of us seem to get a setup that works but may/may not work for the next guy.

I am likely going to do some test runs as I set up the trimmer and explore the idea of using an RCBS 'small' resizer/decapper with neck expander ball, then trim, then run a neck expander die just to ensure there are no burrs and the neck is ready for may Montana Gold 55gr FMJs. I am going to check if chamfer will be needed. I am going to set aside a few hours to get things set up and then hopefully start some production runs. I have already loaded and test fired test rounds and have my powder charge dialed in.

Mike

This is what I do and have had great luck. My 650 setup is:

Trim head

Station 1: Decapping die

Station 3 or 4: Dillon trimmer set to FL size to a Dillon case gage.

Loading head

Setup as normal with a FL sizing die backed off just barely and a Lee factory crimp die in station 5 (remember I'm on a 650)

[BillD]

My procedure on my 550 for .223.

1. Deprime and resize.

2. Take the brass to a buddy for trimming and swaging for $25 per K.

3. Get the brass back and load it.

[VinceU1]

My procedure on my 550 for .223.

1. Deprime and resize.

2. Take the brass to a buddy for trimming and swaging for $25 per K.

3. Get the brass back and load it.

Ahh, Hedonism at it's best!

I'm jealous as I don't know anybody local that would trim and swage for $25/K. So I have to buy already primed and sized 5.56 from a local guy for $80/K. Well, sort of sized. Needs the neck resized as they are from pulled military ammo.

[Doc Hunter]

Bullets make poor sizers. A "M" type die will iron out the inconsistency in the neck id.. That's a good thing. You will still have ample neck tension. If you are using mixed brass and only sizing the od of the neck and no expander, the different wall thicknesses of the various brass will have and give different amounts of id and thus different neck tension. Run the "M" die.