shooterdoc Posted July 4, 2004 Share Posted July 4, 2004 I see JM is having S&W build him a scandium-framed .38 super N frame for steel shooting. Anybody know if/when they will be available to the disciples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intel6 Posted July 4, 2004 Share Posted July 4, 2004 I just finished reading that article. Sounds interesting, seems to be building it for steel challenge type stuff. I assume that he will use his regular revos for the other stuff? Neal in AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted July 4, 2004 Share Posted July 4, 2004 I've always wanted them to chamber the Scanduim J-frames in Super. A lightweight N will be interesting, but for Steel, why not just whack the barrel to 2" or whatever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterdoc Posted July 4, 2004 Author Share Posted July 4, 2004 Hmmm, I wonder why JM hasn't thought of that. Shred, are you a barrel whacker??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Hey Doc, If a guy wanted a superlight open steel revolver, couldn't he start with a new M327PC (like below), mount a C-More, maybe put on a different barrel of some kind? You could shoot it without moonclips (since you're not gonna be shooting more than 8 shots anyway), but if you wanted to speed-load it and wanted shorter ammo to make the loads easier, you could make up some stubby little cartridges in .38 Colt brass... Sounds like a cool project! (...and probably not all that different, functionally, from what JM is doing--although I haven't seen the article...) Bet you could build something really neat for less than $1500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 I see Mike Gabriel even has one of these little 21-oz. gems in stock: Gabe's 327 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 I love it. Whos gonna call S&W and ask if we can get it drilled & tapped for a scope mount? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterdoc Posted July 6, 2004 Author Share Posted July 6, 2004 O.K., Mike/Shred, this catfish'll take the bait. 1) I do not have experience with a barrel that short (don't you love the innuendo); what is accuracy versus a 5" or 6" barrel? 2) Are speedloaders available? 3) Would you go with a JP, Optima, Docter, C-More or a tube? Maybe I should go with a Weaver mount so I can experiment; do you think overall height of site would be too high with this setup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Shred: They already make the N-frame in scandium set up for adjustable sights, and drilled/tapped for optics (e.g., 325PD, 329PD), so this might be possible as a custom PC project? Drilling it after the fact should not be a big deal either. Doc: (1) Don't know about the accuracy--I've heard that weird shrouded barrel system they're using on the Ti/Sc guns is not the greatest in that regard--I think I'd want a longer barrel anyway to get some velocity out of the thing; (2) I'm sure the 327 uses the same 8-shot moonclips as the 627, and those rubber rip-away speedloaders are available too; (3) I don't know anything at all about scopes--I've always shot iron sights in competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lee Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Hello all, FWIW, here are some of my thoughts on the gun... Scandium and Titanium are great for weight reduction, however there is a price(actually several) Inertia- typically in a steel revolver as the bullet leaves the cartridge, the mass of the gun stays in the same place while the bullet enters, travels and exits the barrel. This reduces the stresses on the other loaded cartridges in the gun. In the Titanium and Scandium guns, the inertial delay is minimized, so the frame and cylinder push rearward rapidly. They take the brass cases along for the rearward travel. The bullets, due to their mass want to stay put. The result is that the bullets begin to telescope forward out of their cases. In the worst case scenario the bullet separates completely and locks up the gun. Blast erosion- The Scandium revolvers use a steel shim wedged between the inside top of the frame and the forcing cone. This is the sacraficial fix. For competition the shim will need to be replaced periodically. The Scandium erodes rapidly in high temperature/hi pressure oxygen environments. If the shim is lost or worn through, the flame cutting of the topstrap would be rapid. Friction/abrasion wear- The light alloys are less dense and typically alloyed with Aluminum and other softer metals to reduce brittleness and improve machinability. As a result, part on part wear is accelerated. Headspace, cylinder endshake and play will become concerns. My guess is probably within 1000 rounds-perhaps 5000. Pitting of the Titanium cylinder face would also be my concern with time. If I were to build a lightened 8 shot(if Smith and Wesson were to listen to me) I would use a steel cylinder and crane, reinforce the rear recoil face of the frame where the cylinder bolt/center pin and ejector star make contact with a steel insert. Just some of my thoughts... Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 Hi Randy, Interesting. I think I agree with some of your points, but perhaps not all: It's hard to say how the Sc/Ti guns would hold up to the high-round-count that we competitive shooters typically ask the gun to endure. Conversely, we know the traditional steel wheelguns (like Jerry's old 8-3/8" 27) can and will go literally hundreds of thousands of rounds, with relatively little maintenance. They may get a little shaky, but they keep right on working. Like you, I would wonder about long-term durability on the superlights. I don't think the inertia bullet-pulling issue would be a problem with steel plate loads. I have owned several of the Sc/Ti guns, and found that bullets only move forward in the cases when the highest-recoiling magnum loads were being fired. Likewise, I'm not sure that flame-cutting would be a problem with typical steel plate loads--I think most of the flame-cutting problems with revolvers in general have involved heavy magnum loads, particularly those loaded with ball powders (W-W 296, for example) which tend to create a sandblast effect. As I understand it, these new "scandium" frames are still essentially aluminum, with just a tiny pinch of scandium thrown in to enhance strength. Aluminum has been used in handgun production (S&W airweights, Colt Commander, etc.) for decades, and has been found to hold up fairly well, I think. Anyway, we need an adventurous and well-heeled shooter (like Doc, for example!) to make the investment in this project, and put the resulting gun to a true endurance test, don't we? :-) Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lee Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 Hi Mike, Very good points indeed The bullet pull effect can occur even at 120pf loads. For example I have experienced telescoping bullets in my ICORE V-Comp 627 when I was using plated bullets for practice, even with a heavy crimp which deformed the bullet. Mind you, I'm not disagreeing with you, it's just that component selection and reloading practices may become more critical. I too am curious about how the gun would perform and endure. I don't think my skill level however is at the point that I could reap the benefits of the lighter gun. It just means I could miss the plates faster . Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdgun Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Any new words on the 327PC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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