badchad Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 This takes up more time at matches than it needs to, and should be an automatic visual that in no way can be misinterpreted. Have some ideas on this and will share later. FWIW I don't think there is anything wrong with the landmark itself and I would be opposed to changing it. It would maybe be clearer if they called it the ASIS rather than just point at it, which though most don't know what ASIS means anyone can it look up. Shooters are going to push the edge no matter where you put the line, I just think it wrong to single out one guy and send him to Open when he could have just been told to move his gear back. IPSC enforced the rule pretty strict at the World Shoot, but everyone just adjusted their gear when told and I don't know of anyone who got bumped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sin-ster Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 While the diagram is... rephrase... "can be" helpful, it leaves a lot up for argument and interpretation. A written rule to accompany it might be the way to go. (And a new diagram, similar to the IPSC one, but with a clear illustration of both the front of the hip bone and the line that extends across the shooter's body, if indeed that's how it is measured...) "Any/every part of the magazine pouch, holster, or items that they carry must not cross the line illustrated in the diagram above. The line extends from the forward most part of one hip bone to the other, creating a plane across the front of the shooter that must not be broken." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 The thing that bothers me is that, looking through videos of past nationals, and looking at pictures of the 2011 super squad, there are quite a few people whose mag pouches and holsters appear to be on the point of their hips, if not beyond. How often do guys on the super squad get bumped to open for a mag pouch or holster infraction? Never. However, the rest of us have to (or at least should) be extra careful about how we place our gear lest our Nationals experience be ruined. The point is that we should all follow the rules, but the ROs should enforce them fairly, too. If this RO had seen GMs and folks on the super squad with holsters out of position he should have bumped them to Open, but he didn't. The whole thing is very troubling. I can speak to the Single Stack Nationals in that I look at every shooter that passes through my stage. I have challenged several and some have had to move theirs slightly as it appeared the equipment shifted. I have only had to bump one shooter to Open and that was because he had a magnetic holder in the center of his belt to hold his barney mag. The rule requires "all" equipment be rule compliant. What made me upset was that they had shot two stages earlier with the same equipment. On his first stage it should have been corrected and then he would have been OK for the rest of the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chbrow10 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Sin-ster, I wish I had read this before today's match. I SO would have poked you. And folks, he really isn't that skinny. He just isn't fat like most of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brannon Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Paging bobmysterious! Damn, I knew I shouldn't have clicked on this thread. From my experience I can tell you that the hipbone was the furthest forward point, not necessarily the peak, of the bone. Line up a plane 90 degrees straight off of that point and that's basically where the measurement is checked from. To be safe, and to avoid being poked, just use the outer seam of your pants or the pocket as an index point. Roughly 3 o'clock on your waist. It's a tough and subjective rule to call and enforce, so just err on the side of caution. Or do what I did. I bought an Open gun this afternoon. Or you could push your luck and come challenge my title. After all, I am the defending Open Champion (at the Limited/Production Nationals). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sin-ster Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Sin-ster, I wish I had read this before today's match. I SO would have poked you. And folks, he really isn't that skinny. He just isn't fat like most of us. Oh, trust me-- I was 100% compliant with every definition of the rule! Wall test, poke test, "show me your hip bone" test-- it's all good now, baby. And I don't start having issues with the new mag locations until after the 3rd one comes off of my belt. Score! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Sin-ster, I wish I had read this before today's match. I SO would have poked you. And folks, he really isn't that skinny. He just isn't fat like most of us. I donno, he's pretty damned skinny. In fact, I'm convinced he could fit into one of the pant legs of my pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sin-ster Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 I donno, he's pretty damned skinny. In fact, I'm convinced he could fit into one of the pant legs of my pants. Your old pants, maybe! You keep at that Cross Fit and we may have the same waist size before long... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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