FIRST MAJOR.....Suggestions?

[MrBorland]

for whatever reason I didn't shoot well for me.

If it's your first match at Dean's know that Dean's stage design is often downright diabolic, and often deceptively difficult. This match was particularly so, and I didn't meet anyone (myself included) that didn't feel it was an exceptionally tough match and that they felt they shot to their potential.

It's my turn to shoot, buzzer goes off, bang, click, I rack the slide, click, go to reload to find I started the stage with no mag in my gun. I looked for it everywhere and that mag is just gone. Never found it on the ground, never heard anyone found it, wasn't in any of my stuff when I got home and had time to look hard.

I will never in my life start a stage again without checking my gun to make sure i'm loaded up.

It was a seated start, no? You loaded and made ready, and your gun went bang, so it sounds like the mag fell out while you were waiting for the buzzer. Did you look under the table?

Stage 5, I don't know if I was still thinking about stage 4 during the brief or what, but with the timing of the swinger my game plan was to shoot right to left and shoot the left target 3 to the head. Which I did quickly and perfectly executed only to have 2 of the head shots count as mikes since it HAD to be 2 to the body, one to the head. When he asked if I understood the course of fire I should have said NO, but I didn't figure that out until after.

Discovering you misunderstood the stage brief at the line is often as bad as misunderstanding the stage, as you usually end up shooting confused and uncommitted to a single plan. Don't beat yourself up for not saying "no" - you thought you understood the stage, didn't you? In the future, remember that the only stage that's important is the one you're about to shoot, so listen carefully to the brief. And if you're not first to shoot, watch others to be sure everything jives with your plan. And never be afraid to ask for clarification.

I was talking to Morgan Allen after and he was telling me he thought 30 down for that match was reasonable,

Yes and no. Normally, that's what I'd expect, but this was a tough one with plenty of room for additional PDs. Many (but not all) the master level shooters were in this general area. My general rule of thumb is to keep the time penalty from PDs within 10% of my raw time. Looks like you were a bit more than that, but most were, too. But you avoided NTs, and FNs in a very tough match, and those can rack up time very fast.

I finished second place in my division.

I think you mean in your "classification". Nonetheless, an outstanding result.

You match recap mostly highlighted your screw-ups, which tells me that's where your mind is as well. You can't expect to let a single stage go during a match while simultaneously training your mind to "hang on" days after a match. The best suggestion I can come up with is to look more at what you did well. For one thing, there are an infinite number of ways to screw a stage up, so dwelling on any one of them gets you no further towards the correct way. Looking at what you did well helps your mind come up with the correct ways to run the stage.

More importantly, focusing on the bad tends to solidify a negative self-image of ourselves as a shooter. Say "I can't hit swingers", for example, and you'll be a shooter who can't hit swingers. Your subconscious is agreeing with your conscious thoughts, so your self-image becomes your reality.

Congrats on a good match -

Tom

[MrBorland]

I was told after the awards were over by Morgan that me and the guy that won my division should have gotten match bumped?

Yes, you should've gotten bumped. You took 2nd in your class (16 shooters total), plus you beat 7 experts and even a master in your division, so you had a better score than 22 (=14 + 7 + 1) shooters in your class or higher. The rules say you get bumped.

I'd definitely followup with Dean on this. Match bumps are earned, tough to get, and something to be proud of. Congrats.

From the rulebook:

If the winner of a division and classification has a better

score than 10-19 people in his classification AND the

classification above his within the same division, the shooter

will be promoted to the shooter’s next higher classification. If

the 2nd place competitor of a division and classification has a

better score than 20 – 29 shooters in his classification AND the

classification above within the same division, the 2nd place

competitor will be promoted, etc.

[zsavage81]

Thanks Tom,

On stage #4 they loaded everyone who was in that bay (so everyone shooting stage #3, #4, and #5) at one time. It was like 50 people they loaded up at once and I'd never seen that before. From the time I loaded my gun until it was my time to shoot was 30-40 minutes. I 100% agree that in those 30-40 minutes I hit the mag release and dropped the mag somewhere, but I never found it. What I'm saying is that I didn't double check my gun once it was my time to shoot and I won't ever do that again.

Yea you're right, second place in my classification (I still don't have all my terminology down). I would have been 10th overall in my division (SSP) and even beat one master!

On the negativity, I'm not really down on myself at all, it was a good experience and I had a lot of fun, but I definitely think there is value in evaluating what you did RIGHT and WRONG after a match. How else do you figure out what it is you do well and what things you need to practice? I'm still very new to this and I'm definitely on my way UP, what I am not is content and this match has only made me hungrier. I can't wait to go shoot the next one and I'm going to be working even harder between now and then because I know I haven't reached my full potential yet. Until then I'm going to be a sponge soaking up as much knowledge as I can!

[MrBorland]

I definitely think there is value in evaluating what you did RIGHT and WRONG after a match. How else do you figure out what it is you do well and what things you need to practice?

I don't suggest turning a blind eye to areas that need work. But I look at it this way: imagine you're target shooting, and you consistently yank one shot in each string. It's frustrating and certainly something worth recognizing and evaluating, but it's a fools errand to try fixing it by telling yourself "I yank the trigger; gotta stop yanking the trigger". You'll become the world's expert on how to yank a shot. The way to fix it is to look at how & why you pulled the trigger correctly all the other times, then practice doing that every time.

I'm still very new to this and I'm definitely on my way UP, what I am not is content and this match has only made me hungrier. I can't wait to go shoot the next one and I'm going to be working even harder between now and then because I know I haven't reached my full potential yet. Until then I'm going to be a sponge soaking up as much knowledge as I can!

You didn't sound all that down on yourself or your performance - no more than most others, anyway. But at some point, you'll need a strong mental game if you want to reach your full potential. I suspect that yours is quite high, so it's best to start good habits early, methinks.

Tom

[Not-So-Mad Matt]

Well I definitely DID NOT execute my game plan of running a clean match.

I can't say it was my explicit plan, but I didn't run a clean match either. In fact, Dean's "diabolical" stage designs drove me to make far, far more errors than I'm used to.

Got a very deserving procedural here for stopping my retreat once my mind got blown by how fast the drop turner was gone, Only got one hit on it.

That was my experience with Stage 7, too.

I can't remember if the gas station stage was #1 or #2.

The gas station was Stage 2. The ATM was Stage 1.

I finished second place in my division.

The one Sharpshooter who shot better than you shot better than almost all the Experts and quite a few Masters.

I was a total of 59 points down and 2 procedurals for the entire match. That's WAY too many points down. I was talking to Morgan Allen after and he was telling me he thought 30 down for that match was reasonable, obviously doubling that number isn't.

Well, it really depends where you're at. In the middle of the pack, 60 points down was typical. At the bottom, double that was typical; at the top, half that was typical.

[Blueridge]

Now that I have had a few days to look back at the match, I have come to some conclusions....

First of all that this match did not reflect what I can do on average. The stages were outside of what my strengths are, which shows me where I could use some work to improve.

Second is that while my scores put me in last place in ESR division, I can be competitive with revolver shooters that use moonclips while I use speedloaders (SL Variant). Considering that I am using a stock revolver with likely a trigger pull DOUBLE any of the other revolver shooters (SSR & ESR) I can be confident that my success or failure comes from my skills. Nothing against anyone that has allowed modifications done to thier revolver, but I have not come to the point that my stock revolver is holding me back as opposed to the level of my skills.

Third is that no one really checks to make sure that anyone makes power factor in those divisions that have one, or is concerned with the shooters equipment being within required parameters. There would have to be some gross violation before someone would make an inquiry. I could easily have shot SSR instead of ESR, as no one knew that my revolver exceeds the weight limit for SSR. I know that it does and shoot ESR because it is the right thing to do. This is not a jab at the match, but an observation about IDPA in general that I have seen over the years. In at least major matches ( State Championships, regional matches, etc...) I would expect to see a chronograph be used to verify shooters are in compliance with the rules at least, but I have participated in 7+ "major" matches of this level and have never seen one used. I'll continue to participate within the rules, but it would be nice to see some effort to check for compliance by larger than local matches. A S.O. advised me that I should be shooting SSR instead of ESR because I was using speedloaders instead of moonclips. When I advised him that my revolver exceeded the weight limit of SSR I got a look of disbelief, followed by a comment that suggested that I did not know what I was talking about. I carried on with working the stage, as I knew that I was correct. I don't expect every S.O. to know all the restrictions for all the divisions (heaven knows that I don't remember them all from the top of my head), but the level of doubt and disdain shown by the S.O. I came across was a bit annoying.

Finally I would like to say that I enjoy participating in IDPA and other shooting sports (on top of competitive olympic style fencing at the local, state, regional, and national level). I am getting better and my skills are improving, so don't be surprised when I finish higher than you in future matches (that means not only those shooting revolver, but those shooting autos).

Edited February 14, 2012 by Blueridge

[zsavage81]

Blueridge,

I wasn't asked to shoot over the crono, but there was one set up on the car trunk stage when I got there. The guy that won SSP SS said they asked him and 3-4 other people to crono on that stage when he shot it, so I guess it was more of like a spot check. Not sure if they were picking people they thought were below PF or just picking people at random, but they definitely checked at least a few people.

[DWFAN]

.... followed by a comment that suggested that I did not know what I was talking about. I carried on with working the stage, as I knew that I was correct. I don't expect every S.O. to know all the restrictions for all the divisions (heaven knows that I don't remember them all from the top of my head), but the level of doubt and disdain shown by the S.O. I came across was a bit annoying.

I've experienced that at a match once when I was told that I could not decock my hammer by hand, and that if it did not have a decocker I had to shoot ESP cocked and locked. The look on his face told me perfectly clear that I was an idiot for even attempting to lower the hammer by hand.

[Blueridge]

Blueridge,

I wasn't asked to shoot over the crono, but there was one set up on the car trunk stage when I got there. The guy that won SSP SS said they asked him and 3-4 other people to crono on that stage when he shot it, so I guess it was more of like a spot check. Not sure if they were picking people they thought were below PF or just picking people at random, but they definitely checked at least a few people.

I did not notice that. As that was the case, I stand corrected on that issue reference to this match. Nice to see that measures like this were taken.

[Steve Koski]

I have been to one sanctioned match where they chrono'd just a few shooters with powder puff sounding loads. Seems like a decent way to do it. At first it seemed "unfair dammit!" But from the MD's perspective, he doesn't have to have an experienced helper chrono loads all day long. And it keeps people on their toes.

[Blueridge]

I understand the manpower issue reference chronographing every shooters ammunition. Some consistent method of handling such matters is all that I am concerned about. Random checking of shooters ammunition is fine, and it does make life simpler for the match staff.

I personally have never been chronographed in IDPA, but I use the same loads that I use in USPSA that make approximately 170-175PF. I used to make approximately 180PF when I was just starting out reloading .45 Colt. Tha was before I got a chance to chronograph my loads.

At a USPSA match when I was starting out they fired two rounds and declared that I made power factor when it was found that those tow rounds made 185PF.

[chuck s]

you did really well Zach, despite those mental errors. I was so disgusted with my performance that I just left after finishing the course by 12:30. I ended up placing better than I thought I would and apparently got an award, but for the life of me I do not know how. I seemed to have at least one of every penalty that IDPA gives out and several of a few. One thing that I found very distracting was the shotgun start. It seemed that it created a lot of confusion for the SOs and shooters in general so the flow of the match was not linear. It does allow one to get through the course quickly and I am sure there are plenty that like that format. I will go back however, all in all I very much appreciated the effort it took to put on such an elaborate match and it will be up to me to figure out how to best run a shotgun start match.

[zsavage81]

Chuck, I wondered what happened to you? Nick and I didn't finish shooting until like 4-430. That was my first non-squaded shotgun start experience also. From talking to the match director later in the day he was saying that over half the shooters started in that one bay on stages 3,4, and 5, which is exactly what we did. Nick was saying he thought it was going to be best to kind of warm-up on the standards stages before going to the harder ones. I think MOST people had that same game plan. So if you started where we did it was hard separating from the pack. We finally did it in the afternoon, and once the pace picked up I kind of found a grove and started shooting a lot better. I don't know what I'll do on the next one, I liked the warm-up, but I didn't like waiting 30-40 minutes on each stage to shoot. I did like the freedom to choose where to start and where to go next though. I just didn't manage it right, but that's all part of the learning I guess!

[MrBorland]

Nick and I didn't finish shooting until like 4-430.

Yowzer. I finished at 1:30. I finally had to leave at 3:30. Bummer, as I won my division, but couldn't stick around for the awards.

I avoided crowds, and got through it pretty efficiently. Dean was pretty good at going around advising people where the open stages were. Three of us walked up to stages 1 & 2, and had it to ourselves. By the time we finished there, the gridlock cleared on the other stages, and moved on down to the stages 1 & 2, where they waited in gridlock again.

I was so disgusted with my performance that I just left after finishing the course by 12:30. I ended up placing better than I thought I would and apparently got an award, but for the life of me I do not know how. I seemed to have at least one of every penalty that IDPA gives out and several of a few

We rarely do as well or as poorly as we think. That's particularly true when shooting a major match at Dean's.

Tom

[cgrivois]

Zack this is Craig, sheeps friend. We both got bumps, if you go to the match website and look at the scores it shows you getting the bump. They should call them into IDPA but I haven’t seen it show up yet. I got chronoed at the car trunk stage along with three other shooters, luck of the draw I suppose. After the stage brief they picked a few of us out and asked us to give them 5 rounds, so there wasn’t any suspicion of powder puff loads, we chronoed before the stage started. The truck stage with the drop turner was difficult. All three targets were equal distance so I put one into each of the static targets which gave me time to put three into the drop turner on its second exposure, then went back and put the last two into the static targets. My mental game was to shoot as accurate as I could, and I knew my times would suffer, but I was going take my chances on the game plan. I finished the match with 23 down and as you know won my class and got the bump. You’re lucky to be able to shoot on a regular basis with Nick and Jason, both master shooters. I avoided shooting with you guys because I have a bad habit of trying to keep up with shooters in my squad, and I knew from Jason how good of a shooter Nick is. Take care, it was good to meet you, and hopefully I’ll see you guys later this year at the Carolina cup.

Edited February 20, 2012 by cgrivois

[cgrivois]

Not sure if this link will work but check the awards page and it shows the bump. http://caswellranch.com/Documents/2012-02-11awards.pdf

[zsavage81]

Craig,

It was great meeting you as well. I 100% agree I've been very luck to get to shoot with guys that are much better than I am. I'm even luckier they have been cool enough to help school me up. I definitely attribute the pace at which I've been able to improve to those guys. I assure you if I wasn't able to ask Nick questions about my game plan before stages and him steer me away from certain things I would have done otherwise, I certainly wouldn't have done as well. Being able to bounce ideas off him and him either reassure me that's solid ideology, or tell me no that's retarded is invaluable. The other good thing about it is I don't have the problem you say you've got. I've shot with them enough to KNOW I can't keep up with them (yet) so I don't even try. As you can see from the initial post before the match my game plan was exactly like yours, the difference being that you executed and I didn't. Pretty cool we got bumped, I looked at the site a few times but never saw the part where it said we were moving up! I'm planning to be at Cup as of right now so I guess I'll see you there! If you get a chance between now and then you should get up with Sheep and come to a local match, shooting with those boys is definitely making me better!

[cgrivois]

Will do take care man.

[cgrivois]

Bump showed up at IDPA HQ Zack take a look.

[zsavage81]

So how does that work card wise? Does someone still have to sign it? If so who? Everything I could find said the match director from the match where the bump took place. Obviously I can't just ride 5 hours to get my card signed, so does it suffice that the bump shows up on the idpa site? Nick and I were talking about this the other day and he wasn't sure what I was supposed to do either.

On another note, I hear we're going to be shooting in the same squad at Carolina Cup? From what Nick was saying it was you, Shep, Nick, and I among others?

[cgrivois]

Ive never had to show my card at a major. I think they will check your IDPA member number when you sign up, they will see your classification then. See you at the cup.