website development

[Qstick]

I recently have been bitten by the website bug. I'm interested in building a site for myself, not commercial, just for the hell of it and the challenge of trying something new.

Being a computer idiot, is there software out there that would make it possible to try this? I don;t mind putting in the time to learn some basics, and I would like (if possible) to get software that would grow with me.

Anybody have any reccomendations? Is there some more information that I could provide that would make it easier to make a reccomendation?

Thanks for the help,

Zach

[Shooter Grrl]

DreamWeaver is the best out there right now.

It's simple enough that you can learn the basics of design, but will definitely allow you to grow!

Free 30 day trial can be found at http://www.macromedia.com

You can also try Microsoft's Frontpage. I started on it, but then switched to DreamWeaver. If you use Word or Powerpoint, then you'll be REALLY comfortable using Frontpage.

Oh, and Word and Powerpoint save as html files - they are also a good way to get a feel for page development. (Hint: use tables!)

Also, the site I'm using for hosting offers a $4.99/mo personal account which includes a free copy of Frontpage. Information can be found at 1and1.com

[SiG Lady]

Dreamweaver's what I've been using/studying for some time. Just upgraded to the latest version and have to re-learn a few of the tricks (the interface has changed a little), but it's great for folks who don't necessarily want to learn to code pages from scratch. Using HTML editing software (Web-building software) is more easily grappled with if you DO know a little basic HTML code so you'll better understand what the graphic interface of things like Dreamweaver are actually doing underneath it all.

There are actually decent little books out there, too, on basic HTML that would give you that coding insight without any up-to-your-eyeballs commitment to becoming a crazed, geeky code freak, necessarily.

[Deuce]

Notepad.

[Shooter Grrl]

Gawddamn code writers

[SiG Lady]

I, too, basically started from scratch (yes, Notepad) and loved it.

And I'll tell you, if you DON'T know a little about The Code, you're at a slight disadvantage with muddling through the graphic interface softwares. Heck, when Dreamweaver gets weird, I just go into the code and see if I can beat it into submission from THAT side of things... (or at least delete what's acting up and start over......)

[Tman33_99]

I built a website using Trelix which is free from earthlink. This is all I used to build our clubs website http://www.clearcreekpracticalshooters.org. Very easy and user friendly.

Travis

[GRD]

Dreamweaver, beaten into shape by hand-tweaking (like SL says).

[Deuce]

Heck, when Dreamweaver gets weird, I just go into the code and see if I can beat it into submission from THAT side of things... (or at least delete what's acting up and start over......)

Please Sig-Lady ... I'm a married man ... I don't need such temptations.

FWIW, Travis, and others, I've put together a little javascript calendar which is quite easily scammed from my website urona.com/uspsa/ogc/schedule. It's meant to be used on a month-by-month basis. It automatically figures out the main holidays ... even Easter (verified thru 2010) Once you've got the main .js file, the rest is pretty quick 'n simple to throw into anything (basically, a one-liner for each month). Oh, if you check it out, be sure to hover over the highlighted days for any "tip".

Incidentally, if you haven't tried TextPad (not a MS thing), it's quite nice for html and sql.

Also, when did "frame" become a dirty word?

[John Heiter]

Steer clear of Front page. It's easy to use but if you ever do have to go into the code it will make your eyes cross. Dreamweaver is good. It's a graphical interface over the top of the HomeSite HTML editor. The more you do it, the more you'll find yourself avoiding the GUI's and just coding by hand using a dedicated HTML editor ala Homesite, HTML Kit, or (nod to the Mac guys) BBEdit.

[D.Hayden]

You need to look at the server you plan to use. As soon as you get away from pure HTML and start having the server do things for you, your tools will change.

If it's Apache, WebSphere, IIS, etc... find a toolset that helps you do the server code.

How the server renders the page (Database calls, mail system, server file system, etc.), and handles the user interactions, at least for us, requires the developer tools to understand both sides of the dialog.

HTML is pretty easy to do and doesn't need that much help. Getting the 'look' down is an art, that people here can do, but they could do the same job with NotePad++, or Visual Notepad. The biggest challenge of the code itself is making it work 100% on all the platforms/browsers you might encounter.

Dreamweaver - check it out. I don't use it, but it gets very good reviews - and should help in most aspects of your development. Try out the 30 day trial....

To get started the cheapest way possible, with more trail and error, Notepad will work. If you have any programs that export to HTML (Word, Excel, Powerpoint [i know all Microsoft, sorry), it's a quick way to mock up a page with fonts, etc., to see how the HTML should look - although it tends to be overly complicated.

Lastly: watch out for how much 'glitz' you put in a page. Look at a page you like, they tend to be simple.

To join the anti Front Page group:

I also hate Front Page. Graphical interfaces are nice to get a page started, but usually/eventually, you'll need to update the page by hand. With Front Page... forget it. I used it long ago, now if I find someone editting one of my pages with it, (or the Visual Studio GUI equivilant), I'll get the last good copy out of the change-cntrol system, and make them redo it right.

[SiG Lady]

I'm in the process of concocting my own business Website (finally!!!!) and Dreamweaver stopped me cold the other day when I tried to insert some previously-quite-functional-in-Notepad Javascript modules to get a small textual image set to rotate, and c**p, it's not working!! Gah, I have a whole folder-ful of 'cool' Javascript things and they might all be non-usable by now! So much for beating the software into submission on the code side... If I get annoyed enough I'll be tempted to throw in a damn' scrolling marquee.

Another annoying thing is all these nice new softwares don't come stock with operating manuals any more--you have to go out and buy $50 (or more) manuals, which are nice but only add to the software expense.

Yes, HomeSite was widely used either alongside or as an alternative to Dreamweaver at one point.

"Frames" are OK if done with taste and discretion.

Heck, when Dreamweaver gets weird, I just go into the code and see if I can beat it into submission from THAT side of things... (or at least delete what's acting up and start over......)

I have to get my kicks where I can find them...

[Qstick]

Thanks for all the info - my head is spinning already

Any reccomendation on a couple good beginner books that I could read? I will be out of the country for a few weeks and will have plenty of time to try and learn a little about website basics.

Thanks again for the help,

Zach

[Shooter Grrl]

Zach - you asked the right questions - sometimes though, we web geeks get carried away. I'm sorry we made your head spin already!!!!

The best software to use if you don't know coding is DreamWeaver. Download their 30 day trial, play with it, go through the tutorial (lemme know if it's not included in the freebie and I'll pirate it for you). I think you'll be pleased at what you can accomplish.

If you REALLY want to learn code, which is absolutely positively NOT NECESSARY to get started, the best book is "HTML for Dummies".

[Loves2Shoot]

Another vote for Dreamweaver, I've used it since the 1st version and now it is a good product.

[Qstick]

Kath -

thanks again for all the help. I'll download the trial version after I get back from my trip. One more question for you -

I was looking at the 1and1 website - what is the timeperiod that you have to commit for? I didn't see that on their website. I hate to commit for a long period of time since I am unsure of whether or not I will enjoy (or have the time for) playing with a webpage.

Thanks again,

Zach

[Shooter Grrl]

6 months Zach. They'll bill you upfront 6 months at a time.

PM me. I can give you a corner of my site - but you won't be able to use their templates.

[rboudrie]

USPSA is currently offering FREE HOSTING on the USPSA.ORG web server at no charge to sections and areas on a capacity available basis. Yes, you can use your own domain name (set the dns to ns1.simonthedog.com and ns2.simonthedog.com).

There are a few catches:

1. The service must be requested by your area director, and must be for a sectional or area site ONLY.

2. We do not guarantee backups - you have to keep your own.

3. Site management is via a cpanel control panel which allows you to control pop email, mailing lists, forwarders, MySQL databii, etc. Technical support from me will be minimal - I will keep the system working, but cannot hand hold on details.

4. The system is Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Apache, MySQL, Perl, PHP based.

5. Space of at least 500MB. Traffic has no set limit, but this is subject to keeing withint overall server limits (as of today, we have used less than 2% of our monthly bandwidth on the server)

6. There is no guarantee this will be free forever... but not plans to do anything else either. The webmaster (me) is doing this on his own using leeway granted by HQ. There are currently no plans to charge in the future, but HQ and the board make the final decisions. If I find it is easy to support sections and areas, I may suggest making this service available to clubs at a nominal fee.

7. If the server is down, it means USPSA.ORG is down too. Getting that up will have my full attention and be treated as a top priority, but I can't guarantee perfection.

8. You will have ftp, shell (telnet & ssh) and MySQL access.

9. The server supports https, however, I do not have any certificates installed and do not recommend it for commerce since it's not a "hardened" system (all on-line USPSA credit card transactions are done using separate specialty services for security reasons).