Babaganoosh Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Ok so I found out about a knockdown steel match where we can use shotguns at that's in 2 days. A few quick questions for anyone who can assist. First some background. Started shooting USPSA in April and am classified and a C class shooter. I shoot two of those a month. I also shoot a static steel match a month. This is with pistol. So I am familiar with safety and the range commands. Going to be using my Mossberg 500 However a few dilemmas. Targets will be between 10 and 12 yards and we can only use 7.5 shot or smaller. We can only load 5 shells to start, but can reload as many as we can fit after the start signal. All reloads will be coming from a table since I have no shotgun shell caddies at this time. The steel is set to go down with a 9mm minor load. It will be a set time and you knock down as many as you can in that time. 4 stages like that, then a smaller stage that is timed with a shot timer which will be used as a tie breaker. Approx 35 to 40 plates per stage. First is that the barrel is 18.5 inches with zero choke. This will knock down steel at 10 yards for sure, not sure about 12 yards. I have shot some mini poppers at 10 yards and they do go down, just not very quick or hard. Here is the hard part. I can switch to a longer barrel with a choke but I have to swap magazine tubes to do so and end up losing 2 rounds in the mag tube if I do that. Is it better to lose the 2 rounds and go with a barrel that will def knock down the steel or keep the shorter barrel and hope for the best. I would have to swap tubes at home since I can't do it at the range. So if the 18.5 inch barrel doesn't do the job then I am out of luck since I can't switch to the longer barrel. Any opinion or advice would be appreciated here. Also the reloads will be coming from a table. Prob going to take a piece of board and drill some holes in it to stand the shells up in so they can be grabbed easily. Is this a good idea? Anything that falls off the table can't be used during the course of fire. Lastly. What is the deal with weak hand or strong hand reloads? What would be better in this situation? Is one way better than the other or is it just personal preference? I have a day and a half to practice whichever I go with. Sorry for all the questions but I really don't know much about the shotgun aspect of our sport. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke8401 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) - The 18.5" no choke barrel should have no problem knocking down poppers or other steel at 12 yds. - If the long barreled setup holds the minimum number (5) for starting the stage, than having a higher capacity mag tube does not help as you will be hand loading the same number of shells after the buzzer. So if you are worried about knocking down the steel and the capacity is at least 4+1 you can stick with the longer barrel and choke. - I would learn weak hand, lay the shells in rows of 3 on the table, buzzer - shoot 4 (1 left in the gun), pick up 3 and load 3, shoot 3 and load 3 repeat. Keep it simple. This way your gun won’t run dry and loading 3 is easier than loading 4. - Since you have no shell holders I would make something for the board to keep the shells from moving while you pick them up or otherwise bump the board around. - concerning drilled holes in the board, grabbing 1 shell at a time and loading is slower than grabbing 3 and loading. Economy of motion, hand from table to gun and back. Good luck David E. Edited November 10, 2011 by Nuke8401 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 If at all possible, avoid running the gun dry/empty. Is there a brand spanking new Chevy pickup truck up for grabs? I wouldn't worry about the small stuff. Go have fun. Learn what you can learn. Keep your cheek mounted to the stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlmiller1 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Here is a "tutorial" by some of the best shotgun loading guys around. I've found it very helpful, enjoy! If your longer barrel, shorter tube still holds at least 4 in the tube, change it out, if it only holds 2 or 3, well, I would put real thought into that. Most likely if it holds only 2 or 3, I would leave the short barrel, long tube & deal with the other issue by shooting heavier loads of 7.5. No sissy 1oz. loads, get some lead(1 1/4oz) out there with some speed to it. Most shells have FPS numbers & they all have the shot load weight so get shells heavy enough to help you out with the short barrel. A board with slots that would hold 3 shells together in a row would be your best bet, if you can do that. Follow the video but load 3 at a time like Nuke said. 3 at a time is lots easier for most new folks than 4 at a time. I still load 3 at a time most times. MLM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Skip weak hand/strong hand. You don't have time to learn it in 2 days. Make yourself a tray out of 1/3 split 1" PVC pipe or electrical conduit. Put a plug or a screw at one end and angle it up at about 45 degrees with the top open. Pick up two at a time and TWinS load. This is grabbing two shells in line, loading hand with thumb on the primer of the top shell and shove both into the gun at once. There are several videos up using the Carbon Arms TWinS loaidng technique. A lot of our customers practiced for a while using home-made trays to test the technique before the bought a TWinS vest or caddie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Skip weak hand/strong hand. You don't have time to learn it in 2 days. Make yourself a tray out of 1/3 split 1" PVC pipe or electrical conduit. Put a plug or a screw at one end and angle it up at about 45 degrees with the top open. Pick up two at a time and TWinS load. This is grabbing two shells in line, loading hand with thumb on the primer of the top shell and shove both into the gun at once. There are several videos up using the Carbon Arms TWinS loaidng technique. A lot of our customers practiced for a while using home-made trays to test the technique before the bought a TWinS vest or caddie. +1 the Carbon arms twins vest is very easy to learn to use. I picked it up with just about 30 to 45 minutes of practice the night before a match. I still have to get faster but my reload times on just the first practice session where nearly half of what my weak hand loads are. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babaganoosh Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 gun as-is holds 7+1. Thats with the 18.5 inch barrel. If I go to longer barrel with choke its gonna be 5+1. We can only start with 5 but can load to 7 after the start signal or when reloading if that makes a difference. I figure on a 40 target array that would mean that if I can reload to 7 vs 5 it would save me 2 reloads. Thats a lot of time considering I have no practice reloading fast yet. Not sure if that changes anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babaganoosh Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 Trying to picture the angled tray but im not visualizing it! Help. I have seen the load 2 system. Looks awesome. I'll buy it if I get into shotgun more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Trying to picture the angled tray but im not visualizing it! Help. Does this help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babaganoosh Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 Trying to picture the angled tray but im not visualizing it! Help. Does this help? Little bit. gonna try to sink them in a board. Figure it's gonna be 20 - 25 tubes to make sure I have enough ammo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 hey, whoever came up with that Carbon Arms TWinS vest idea was pretty clever. I applaud your ingenuity/entrepenuer-ness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke8401 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 mean that if I can reload to 7 vs. 5 it would save me 2 reloads This really doesn’t matter much, in either case you will be loading the same number of shells after the buzzer. It doesn't matter if you shoot some first or load some first (since you are not moving). Now if you saved the hand motion and grabbed 7 vs. 5 it would matter. If you are loading 1 at a time, no difference. MarkCO has a good idea, because you would be taking the gun down from the shoulder and rolling it, loading as many shells each cycle would be faster than say load 2 load 2 shoot 4, load 2 load 2 shoot 4. So the 7+1 would have the advantage of load 2 load 2 load 2 shoot 6, repeat. In any case, since there is no movement, loading before shooting provides no advantage. When you are thinking speed, think economy of motion. Less hand movement to and from the table, less gun movement is better. The exception is possibly twins, which I hear is easier to learn and way fast, so you can overcome the extra movements involved. David E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 hey, whoever came up with that Carbon Arms TWinS vest idea was pretty clever. I applaud your ingenuity/entrepenuer-ness. Thanks Chills! In reality, I think James' design of the FSL caddies far exceeds the SSL vest in terms of ingenuity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babaganoosh Posted November 11, 2011 Author Share Posted November 11, 2011 I practiced putting groups of 3 and 4 shells on the kitchen table, grabbing them and loading weakhand while just dropping the gun a bit from my shoulder. Pretty much how the guy in the video loads from the belt mounted caddy. After a few tries I got it going pretty good. Comfortable doing it. I figure if I load to 7 in the tube I'll be set. If I load 5 I can either do a grab 3 then a grab 2. Or go with thre whole economy of motion and just grab 4 shoot 4 grab 4 shoot 4 and so on. Gonna hit the range today for some practice and see what is the fastest. I'd really like to try the load 2 method but dont think I'll have time to make the tray with tubes in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke8401 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Babaganoosh, So how did the match go? David E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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