skip62 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) I don't really have enough info, but here is what I do have. .45acp 185 LSWC 1.255 oal Solo 1000 - 5.2grs WLP ave velocity 894fps I bought a Sig Scorpion a few weeks ago, cleaned it after about 800 rounds and noticed the breech face was starting to erode around the firing pin hole, obvious it was primer leaking. Looked at some of the primers and didn't see anything wrong, not flattened, no flow at firing pin indentation. Loaded up some more and went to the range, fired a few rounds checking the primers. I finally saw a black ring around the primer, yeah, now I've got something to look at. Fired a few more rounds to get more samples. I had also loaded up some 230 LRN's at 750fps, and ran 100 of them, with no problems. I went back through and carefully inspected the last 300 rounds fired in the gun. 3 kinds of brass, Winchester - no problems, Federal - a small percentage cracked, R-P - 1 in 10 cracked. I've seen primers leak in the old days shooting Super at 180pf, but this cracking. Any ideas? oh yeah, I've shot 2300 of this load through my Kimber with the Winchester brass, and it has a couple of spots on the breech face, but not as bad as the Scorpion. So I would assume brass has something to do with it. Just not sure what to blame. I'm thinking the Solo 1000 must have a high momentary spike, but just not confident that answer. So what do you all think? Thanks I just punch the primers out and set them in cases for the photo. Edited October 13, 2011 by skip62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip62 Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 I've never seen anything like this. I'll be real interested to hear what others think is causing the cracking. Yeah, I've been loading pistols on and off for 30 years and hundreds of thousands of rounds, and haven't seem this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinosaurMikeGolf Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 What brand of primers are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip62 Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 WLP - Winchester Large Primers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinosaurMikeGolf Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) WLP - Winchester Large Primers Might be a bad lot if all are from the same brick. Did you notice anything unusual while seating them such as harder or easier to seat? Edited October 13, 2011 by DinosaurMikeGolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip62 Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 It was 2 different boxes of a 1000, purchased at different times from different vendors, so I don't think they were the same lot. Didn't notice anything different while loading, and I pay attention to the amount of pressure I use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBBB Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I've never seen that before. This is total speculation but I wonder if the metal used in the primer cup is more brittle and less ductile than it should be. Unless you get a good response here I would suggest you start by calling Winchester, explaining the problem, and giving them the lot number. You can also offer to send in your picture or give them a link to this thread. I for one would really appreciate you keeping the thread updated as you work through this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip62 Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 I've never seen that before. This is total speculation but I wonder if the metal used in the primer cup is more brittle and less ductile than it should be. Unless you get a good response here I would suggest you start by calling Winchester, explaining the problem, and giving them the lot number. You can also offer to send in your picture or give them a link to this thread. I for one would really appreciate you keeping the thread updated as you work through this. Yeah, I guess I should call Winchester. I have some CCI primers I'm going to try with the same load and see if I see anything odd. I was thinking of changing powders, but that really probably won't tell me anything. I'll keep y'll posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinosaurMikeGolf Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I've never seen that before. This is total speculation but I wonder if the metal used in the primer cup is more brittle and less ductile than it should be. Unless you get a good response here I would suggest you start by calling Winchester, explaining the problem, and giving them the lot number. You can also offer to send in your picture or give them a link to this thread. I for one would really appreciate you keeping the thread updated as you work through this. Yeah, I guess I should call Winchester. I have some CCI primers I'm going to try with the same load and see if I see anything odd. I was thinking of changing powders, but that really probably won't tell me anything. I'll keep y'll posted. I recommend only making one change at a time. So changing to CCI primer would probably be the best place to start to determine the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip62 Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) One change at a time was my intention, but I wasn't very clear. I loaded 20 of R-P brass 5.2 Solo 1000 185 SWC 1.255 CCI primers Same everything but primers I also loaded R-P brass 4.5 N310 185 SWC 1.255 WLP primers Hopefully this will be an equivalent load. I'm trying to hit the same velocity with a different powder. I'll see what happens after work tomorrow. I looked all over Winchesters site for contact info to send them and e-mail or call, but couldn't find anything. Anyone here have that info? Thanks Edited October 13, 2011 by skip62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinosaurMikeGolf Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 They have a Facebook page. Select Winchester Ammuntion and try to contact them there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 801-876-2711. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip62 Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 Thanks you both, I'll call monday. looks like it's a primer problem. I shot and chrono'd the above loads after work. R-P brass 5.2 Solo 1000 185 SWC 1.255 CCI primers Same everything but primers chrono 930fps. 20 rounds - no cracks I also loaded R-P brass 4.5 N310 185 SWC 1.255 WLP primers chrono 905fps. 15 rounds and there it was, cracked primer, This load was a pretty close equivalent. I'm gong to try N320 and see what that does, it should lower the pressure spike compared to Solo. Any other suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anachronism Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I've seen complaints of Winchester large primers allowing gas cutting on other forums. I originally thought it was poor reloading practices, but now I'm not so sure. There's a thread on the Ruger forums about this issue too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip62 Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 No kidding, I did search the web, but apparently not very well....lol Thanks for the heads up. I just back from shooting about 80 rounds with the CCI primers and no issues. I'll call Winchester Monday, see what they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip62 Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 In case anyone else has these primers, the lot number is DHL779G. From the Ruger thread it looks like the combo of R-P brass makes it worse. I had problems with federal too, but probably half as much, and much less with Winchester brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinosaurMikeGolf Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Glad it has all worked out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I use 3.8 gr. VV N-310, 185 gr. Star LSWCHP and WLP for a number of years - no problems expereinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 FWIW I noticed a problem with split primers with 44mag and RP brass with WLP. My S&W 29-3 had some mild erosion bcause of it. I called Winchester and was told "Huh? Never heard of it. Why aren't you using Winchester brass?" I guess that solves the problem. I'm assuming the RP brass doesn't support the primer because of the chamfered primer hole and am switching to other brass. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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