Why Can't Shooting be Just That

[Shooter Grrl]

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I don't know about everyone else, but I don't shoot matches to practice, I shoot matches to see how well I've been practicing.  I don't show up at matches demanding all stages be "In accordance with" At the Nationals YES, stages should be correct, but local matches are just for fun.

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 I see some flaws with these thoughts...

First, I shoot local matches for practice, as do many other shooters who have no place else TO practice. My ultimate goal is to do well in big matches, therefore, using local matches as practice makes good sense.

Second, we shoot IPSC/USPSA matches.  When I go to a local match, I expect them to follow the same rules as the last club I went, as the next club I'm going to, as the sectional, area and national matches.

As for course design, see my thoughts here:

http://www.brianenos.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard...33&topic=47

[Rufus The Bum]

One question.  How many people show up every weekend or every match an hour or two early?  How many set 1, 2 or 3 stages while everyone else stands around waiting for the match to start?  Perhaps the reason the stages aren't to your liking is because the SAME people set up stages every match.  It's called burnout.  I try to set stages that are in accordance with the rulebook, but that enthusiasm only goes so far if your the only doing the work.  Like I have said before, if you don't like the stages, then that should be more incentive to show up early to help out.  Our club had a guy who never helped out, showed up at match time everytime asking "when are we going to shoot" then he would critique every stage and if it wasn't to his liking, he'd throw a fit.  I told him that if he didn't like the stages, he could either show up early to help, find somewhere else to shoot or just shut up and shoot.  He never came back.  Remember people VOLUNTEER their time to help get matches started on time, they don't need to be critiqued or embarrassed in front of everyone when the match starts because, that's when stage setters stop showing up early and helping out. If you don't help out, you have NO reason to complain.    

[Neil Beverley]

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Quote: from Angus Hobdell on 6:23 pm on Mar. 10, 2003

BTW Neil a little bird said you are going to shoot in Italy?

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Angus

I certainly am, together with about 45 Brits providing all our entries are accepted. There's a lot of new guys shooting now as you would expect but there will still be a number of faces you will recognise.

There are some very, very good shooters now but they are existing mostly on raw talent.  If they get the mental game sorted as well they could be awesome.

It'll be good to see you in Italy, I'll buy the first beer.

And I apologise to all that this is nothing like a rant at all.

[jkmccoy]

Whoo! Hah! This thread has a LOT of stuff in it. A lot of GOOD stuff, but a LOT of stuff....

I like innovative start positions and/or innovative activities during a stage. I think they have a place in USPSA shooting (and not just in local matches). But, there should be no penalty for lacking physical skills that have nothing to do with shooting. That is, I think it is OK to start with grenade in hand..etc., but it stinks to assess penalty points for not hitting a target with the grenade. Every stage should conform to USPSA rules. I don't see anything in the rules regarding scoring grenade hits, bayonet strikes, etc.

Rufus (and others) made some comments regarding volunteering. I want to say AMEN! Our club has a policy of rotating match director, but often the designated MD has a conflict and cannot set up a match. In reality there are about 5 people (out of 30+ regular shooters, we average over 25 per match) who set up our club matches. We don't mind doing it. In fact, we like doing it. But we would be happy to have some help. If you want to suggest a stage (or two or three) please do so. We do work hard at designing stages that not only conform to USPSA rules but are innovative, interesting, and fun...but we'd be glad to have some help.

As regards ShooterGrrl's stage design comments...I agree with most of them, but I must offer my two lincolns on some details. This is a physical sport. I realize that there are differences in the physical abilities of the shooters who attend our matches. Stage design should also recognize that. That doesn't mean that stages should not offer physical challenges. It does mean that stages should offer the choice between physical challenges and shooting challenges. For example, we had a stage a couple of months ago where you could run 40yds down range and engage targets - or you could engage the targets from 40yds (I shot the targets from 40yds and was beaten by a skinny little guy who ran downrange and powder-burned the targets). IPSC/USPSA shooting does involve some physical challenges. The best stages level the field (or nearly level it), but there is still some athletic ability involved. If you want to completely avoid any athletic challenge you should be shooting bullseye. There is some physical ability involved in IPSC/USPSA shooting and you need to recognize that. I don't expect to be required to scale 50' of rope one-handed, swim a crocodile -infested swamp, dive over a waterfall, run an ultra-marathon and then engage targets, but I do understand that being able to move between shooting positions will be part of the competition.

Finally...FREESTYLE! FREESTYLE! FREESTYLE!

Cheers,

[Neil Beverley]

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Quote: from jkmccoy on 7:07 am on Mar. 11, 2003

For example, we had a stage a couple of months ago where you could run 40yds down range and engage targets - or you could engage the targets from 40yds (I shot the targets from 40yds and was beaten by a skinny little guy who ran downrange and powder-burned the targets).

Finally...FREESTYLE! FREESTYLE! FREESTYLE!

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Personally I like this sort of stage, particularly if there was a shooting opportunity all the way to the targets and the competitor can select the distance that they think is right for them.

This sort of problem works well for shotgun stages where pattern spread becomes an issue as well.  At distance 'X' the pattern is 30 inches and at 'Y' 10 inches. Add in a couple of no-shoots and leave it the the competitor to call it.  To me this is a shooting challenge because the run down is an option not a necessity.

I shot a really stupid stage at quite a big UK shotgun match 2 years ago where the outcome of the match could be decided by a non shooting problem that not only was a physical problem but there was a luck element in it as well.  The stage should have been binned but if I'd initiated that I would have been accused of being cranky.

There is no substitute for good course design.

[BigDave]

I think sometimes that stage designers use gimicky props (e.g. grenades) because the actual shooting portion of the stage is weak from a design standpoint.  Sometimes, not always...

If I had the choice of tossing a grenade or making a 50 yd shot on a 2/3 popper, I'd opt for the latter.  Thats a challenge.  The grenade is a gimick.

Thanks Angus - you asked me one night at Tuesday Night Steel if I had a silencer for my HK USP 45.  I didn't realize who you were then, but I do now.  Made me laugh.  Welcome aboard.

[38supPat]

The other thing I have found is the really bad designers have HUGE ego attachment to their handiwork, and take great offense to suggestions that their stage has issues. Usually start with a big rant about how hard they have worked without considering that the shooters that are the harshest critics are the ones that set up at their own club, and/or Level I/II/III/IV/V matches.