Load development on 650

[SDM]

I'm new to reloading, new to the 650 and I'd like to hear how others develop loads on this press. I'm talking about the actual logisitics, after you make a change to the powder bar what do you do? How many cases do you run through before you start weighing the charge? I've read you need to have a piece of brass in each location. Are you always seating bullets? Are you always sizing/depriming and then replacing that brass at the second location (so the powder won't fall out?)

I've read a bunch of stuff about starting with a light load, working up, using a chrono, etc., but I've not been able to find a good description of the actual process folks are using.

[whistlepig]

The 650 is awesome as a high volume production tool, but as you discovered, not the simplest way to work on load development. I admit that I do all development using single stage press and then set up a 650 for mass production when I know what I want. If you only have the 650, make friends with someone with a single stage.

You can do it on the 650, its just labor intensive. Trial and error will help smooth out the process for you. I have found that when I make a change on the powder measure, I throw the first 5 or 6 charges back into the powder measure in the belief that it is "settling down" to a consistant throw. If you ask 40 people here opinions on the process you will probably get 39 diff answers....

And most probably will work.

[Paul-the new guy]

I'm new to reloading, new to the 650 and I'd like to hear how others develop loads on this press. I'm talking about the actual logisitics, after you make a change to the powder bar what do you do? How many cases do you run through before you start weighing the charge? I've read you need to have a piece of brass in each location. Are you always seating bullets? Are you always sizing/depriming and then replacing that brass at the second location (so the powder won't fall out?)

I've read a bunch of stuff about starting with a light load, working up, using a chrono, etc., but I've not been able to find a good description of the actual process folks are using.

You will love the 650, I know I do!

When starting with no reference, I weigh every other charge to get what I consider a corse adjustment. I don't weigh the charge I think is close to what I want until I have dropped at least 5 charges to let things settle in. My method, provided I don't have any primers in the machine, is to short stroke the handle until the case that just dropped into station 1 barely touches the sizing die. This short stroke will not drop another case so when you raise the handle it advances the unsized case to the priming/expanding/powder charging station 2 but no case presents to station 1 so the only station with a case is station 2. I then fully cycle the handle which flares the case mouth and charges the un-sized case, which is still primed with a dead primer. This complete stroke drops a case into station 1 which slides into position as the handle is raised. This advances the charged case to station 3 where I have the button removed so I can easily remove the case. This sounds complicated but it isn't. When I get ready to actually weigh some charges I weigh 10 charges until I get what I want, the whole process takes maybe 10 minutes. I have my powder bars marked and I switch them out according to what load I am going for. So, for .40 S&W I have 2 powder bars, one that I use for minor and one for major. Good luck, I am sure you will develop your own processes.

[Paul-the new guy]

One additional thing, if I am loading a small number of rounds to test diferent loads I only put that many primers in the tube at one time. So if I am loading say, 20 rounds I will only have 20 primers that way I don't have to worry about primers in the machine while I am trying to adjust the powder charge...

[RiggerJJ]

for load development a good way to go is to set the powder drop at the lowest weight you want to drop, then load the 5or 10 rounds at the start load and put them in a seperate box or plactic bag and lable them. then load the next level but pull each case after powder drop before bullet seat, dump it in the scale and add powder for that level, replace the case WITH the new powder level, seat the bullet, and do it for the next 5-10 rounds. put them in a seperate labeled container, and repeat for all the amounts of powder you are trying...head to the range and crono...

jj

[kalaur]

for load development a good way to go is to set the powder drop at the lowest weight you want to drop, then load the 5or 10 rounds at the start load and put them in a seperate box or plactic bag and lable them. then load the next level but pull each case after powder drop before bullet seat, dump it in the scale and add powder for that level, replace the case WITH the new powder level, seat the bullet, and do it for the next 5-10 rounds. put them in a seperate labeled container, and repeat for all the amounts of powder you are trying...head to the range and crono...

jj

I do something similar with doing load development, but I tend to just not mess with the powder thrower. Given the OAL is staying the same and I'm just playing with different powder charges, I'll load up primers and brass, and just pull every case out at the bullet seating station. I then dump the powder into a small container, then measure out a charge by hand with a small lee powder scoop. Dump that charge back in the case, put it in station 4, and seat the bullet. Pull the next case, dump, measure new charge, etc, etc. When I do load development, I generally only load up 10 rounds of each charge before changing the charge weight, so it doesn't make sense to adjust the powder thrower.

Given you are doing load development for different powders, this seems to work pretty well, probably no slower than a single stage. If you start playing with OAL at the same time, then it is nice to have a single stage.

[SDM]

I'm new to reloading, new to the 650 and I'd like to hear how others develop loads on this press. I'm talking about the actual logisitics, after you make a change to the powder bar what do you do? How many cases do you run through before you start weighing the charge? I've read you need to have a piece of brass in each location. Are you always seating bullets? Are you always sizing/depriming and then replacing that brass at the second location (so the powder won't fall out?)

I've read a bunch of stuff about starting with a light load, working up, using a chrono, etc., but I've not been able to find a good description of the actual process folks are using.

You will love the 650, I know I do!

When starting with no reference, I weigh every other charge to get what I consider a corse adjustment. I don't weigh the charge I think is close to what I want until I have dropped at least 5 charges to let things settle in. My method, provided I don't have any primers in the machine, is to short stroke the handle until the case that just dropped into station 1 barely touches the sizing die. This short stroke will not drop another case so when you raise the handle it advances the unsized case to the priming/expanding/powder charging station 2 but no case presents to station 1 so the only station with a case is station 2. I then fully cycle the handle which flares the case mouth and charges the un-sized case, which is still primed with a dead primer. This complete stroke drops a case into station 1 which slides into position as the handle is raised. This advances the charged case to station 3 where I have the button removed so I can easily remove the case. This sounds complicated but it isn't. When I get ready to actually weigh some charges I weigh 10 charges until I get what I want, the whole process takes maybe 10 minutes. I have my powder bars marked and I switch them out according to what load I am going for. So, for .40 S&W I have 2 powder bars, one that I use for minor and one for major. Good luck, I am sure you will develop your own processes.

This is similar to what I did, but I've read you need brass at all stations. Is this not true for the powder drop? This is just for crimp and seating depth?

Thank you all for your responses. I didn't even think about manually measuring the powder.

[wdlong1]

wow it is interesting to read the different methods of working up a load. Firstly I will say that the difficulty in working up a load is the only thing on my 650 that I have not been 100% satisfied with. I have a Hornady Lock and Load as well, and for working up loads it is way easier -- but for me -- is an inferior machine in every other way.

Anyway -- in my mind there are 2 issues 1. Primer feeding and 2. Case feeding

I found this guy on youtube that has decent ways to disable both of the above: (cannot insert link because not enough posts yet - anyway his youtube channel is called "loadmeister"

He recommends a 38 special case to disable the case feeder but that would not fit on my 650 so I use a 223 case that works fine. The primer defeat that he recommends works but is a little bit of a pain. I did actually order the part he recommends though and it does work.

I personally dispense 3-4 charges and dump them back in before measuring. I will measure 3-4 in a row and then measure again maybe every 50-100 rounds. Saying this -- the dillon powder charge is very, very consistent and after some time you will build trust with it and check it less. After you check it 30-40 times and it hasn't changed I think you could argue that just checking once per reloading session is more then adequate. I do highly recommend the Arredondo or like powder measure adjustment knob as it makes adjusting much more precise and repeatable.

I will not go into the other steps in working up a load as I am sure they are covered elsewhere and are not unique to the 650. The above little quirks are unique to the 650 and other then the annoying spent primers everywhere (a problem I am about to fix with a new plate and tube system) they are its only real limitations.

Feel free to PM if you have other questions -- and welcome to the wonderful Zen world reloading.

PS -- If you have 1-2 of your kids in the reloading room with you while you reload (sorting brass perhaps) I am told it qualifies as "quality time".