Jesse Tischauser Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 (edited) I forgot to mention that my 3rd shot was definitely an AD on my part. I put the part about making up a D in the video because you never know who is watching your videos. Does it matter if it was an AD or a poorly aimed shot? Edited September 5, 2011 by Jesse Tischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Do we even know what the call was? Was it 10.4.3, 10.4.1, or 10.5.2? If it was 10.4.3 or 10.5.2, a third hole on the target isn't to help any. It was 10.4.1 & 10.4.3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Sorry about the DQ Jesse. :-( Thanks for posting the video, though, as an example of how close a call can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 I forgot to mention that my 3rd shot was definitely an AD on my part. I put the part about making up a D in the video because you never know who is watching your videos. Does it matter if it was an AD or a poorly aimed shot? Uh ... yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 I forgot to mention that my 3rd shot was definitely an AD on my part. I put the part about making up a D in the video because you never know who is watching your videos. Does it matter if it was an AD or a poorly aimed shot? Uh ... yes. Uh thanks for the detailed answer! How can you tell the difference as long as it impacts the berm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avezorak Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 According to my RO instructor, who I very specificly asked, an AD that does not happen during a reload, impact within 10 feet or go over the berm is not grounds for a DQ and I can find a rule that says that it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I forgot to mention that my 3rd shot was definitely an AD on my part. I put the part about making up a D in the video because you never know who is watching your videos. Does it matter if it was an AD or a poorly aimed shot? Uh ... yes. Uh thanks for the detailed answer! How can you tell the difference as long as it impacts the berm? Avezorak basically beat me to the answer ... But: Read the rules under 10.4 ... If the situation fits one of those, it's an AD and a DQ whether it was poorly aimed or not. If it dosen't fit one of those, then it's NOT an AD. It MAY still be a DQ under 10.5 somewhere - UGH - but you'd have to read those rules to see if it fit there. If it dosen't fit any DQ rule, then it's PROBABLY not a DQ. A poorly aimed shot may or may not rise to the level of a DQ. If it fits one of the definitions of an AD, then it is a DQ. Hence, the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 According to my RO instructor, who I very specificly asked, an AD that does not happen during a reload, impact within 10 feet or go over the berm is not grounds for a DQ and I can find a rule that says that it is... There are several rules that define an accidental discharge, in very specific terms. Quote the rule and the circumstances. In some instances, the RO is going to have to use judgment as to what the competitor was actually doing when the gun went off. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 According to my RO instructor, who I very specificly asked, an AD that does not happen during a reload, impact within 10 feet or go over the berm is not grounds for a DQ and I can find a rule that says that it is... Can? Or can't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avezorak Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 According to my RO instructor, who I very specificly asked, an AD that does not happen during a reload, impact within 10 feet or go over the berm is not grounds for a DQ and I can find a rule that says that it is... Can? Or can't? Typo. Sorry. Can't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Jesse, I got DQ'd on Stage 7 before the buzzer even went off because the RO asked me in the howling 30 mph wind to move one step forward instead of saying "load and make ready" like he should have.....I drew my gun to load, he put the hammer down. Everyone called BS, but there was nothing I could do. $100 arbitration is a bad joke that needs to be changed. Left me with a feeling I was cheated out of time, effort, and money..... Sorry you got DQ'd,too... Jesse did you have 3 holes in that target? If there was there is no way you should have been DQ'ed, If there was only 2 it supports the real time issue of them making a call! 8.3.1 and 10.5.1 cover your situation. If you don't understand what the RO says, you need to ask him to repeat it, not make assumptions. There is no rule that prohibits a range officer from speaking to you prior to the issuance of "Make Ready", but there are consequences to your actions should you not confirm that was what he said. As for the $100 arbitration fee, it's there to try and ensure that a competitor is serious about filing the request, because it's time consuming for a lot of people when one is filed. It's not always $100, though. It's the match fee or $100, whichever is lower. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Jesse, I got DQ'd on Stage 7 before the buzzer even went off because the RO asked me in the howling 30 mph wind to move one step forward instead of saying "load and make ready" like he should have.....I drew my gun to load, he put the hammer down. Everyone called BS, but there was nothing I could do. $100 arbitration is a bad joke that needs to be changed. Left me with a feeling I was cheated out of time, effort, and money..... Sorry you got DQ'd,too... This is one of those "rules are rules" instances that are ridiculous! I am saddened by this situation as a result of rules from a game I really love to play. You will never here me say "sorry, rules are rules" or "I didnt make the rules, I just enforce them". I guess thats why I not in law enforcement. If it don't make no sense I'm out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Antichrome Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Jesse, I got DQ'd on Stage 7 before the buzzer even went off because the RO asked me in the howling 30 mph wind to move one step forward instead of saying "load and make ready" like he should have.....I drew my gun to load, he put the hammer down. Everyone called BS, but there was nothing I could do. $100 arbitration is a bad joke that needs to be changed. Left me with a feeling I was cheated out of time, effort, and money..... Sorry you got DQ'd,too... This is one of those "rules are rules" instances that are ridiculous! I am saddened by this situation as a result of rules from a game I really love to play. You will never here me say "sorry, rules are rules" or "I didnt make the rules, I just enforce them". I guess thats why I not in law enforcement. If it don't make no sense I'm out! Jesse, I don't want to add fuel to the fire, but you must look at things from the RO's point of view and position of responsibility. You got wronged for all the right reasons. Rusty too. His action did not create an unsafe situation, but it could have. So, the rules must be applied evenly, without a smile or a frown. "Rules are rules" is just the easy way of saying it. Running a timer and actually being an RO are two very different things. I wish more people would take the RO course. It gives you a much better perspective. In fact I think it should be required at some point in a shooters USPSA 'career'. (that last paragraph is a general statement and not directed at Jesse) BTW. A really good range lawyer might have won the arbitration in Jesses case, He had a leg to stand on...But that is a whole 'nuther can of worms. Oh, and Jesse, at :27 in your vid...you're creeping;-) Sorry 'bout your DQ. I also feel really bad for Rusty, that was a bummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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