Help! Round slips in front of extractor.

[GuyC]

I purchased a used SV last week. I just got out to shoot it and every 40 rounds or so the round slips in front of the extractor. I have heard that it may be extractor tention, but this is a SV, so what do I do. I have a match tommorrow.

Edited August 20, 2011 by GuyC

[Sparky]

Guy,

Ron Vandergrift here. Is this the sight tracker from Illinois?

If it has an Aftec extractor it could be the springs need replacing.

If its a standard extractor it could just need some more tension?

I have an Aftec in my MC gun and at a Sectional match the extractor

starting pulling off the cases and caused me to trash two stages.

When I got it home, I checked it and it was really dirty inside.

I took it out, cleaned it real good and the springs looked ok. So

I took a chance and put it back in with the original springs. Its

been running great since them; so far only a few hundred rounds, but

I think it just needed the cleaning.

Hope that helps.

Ron

[GuyC]

This is a different SV than the sight tracker.

It is not a aftec extractor. It has the original SV extractor because it has the same finish and has been blended to the slide.

It is really tight, it holds a round in the breach face tight. It so tight I tried to take it out and I cant even bend it back to get it out of the slide.

Edited August 20, 2011 by GuyC

[JCReid]

A tight extractor would cause a failure to feed, but it can't make the round jump in front of the extractor. This is a magazine issue. If your springs have not been replaced lately then that would be the first thing to do.

[yoshidaex]

Is this a 9 or 40?

[10ring]

From my experience this is a magazine problem. Could the the spring like was mentioned, but I want to ask - did you lubricate the inside of the magazine, or polish the feed lips?

[GuyC]

Well it happened on the last stage of the match today with a different mag. I shot 150 rounds and it happened just once. It really hurt my match scores.

I do not lubricate the inside of the mag or polish the feed lips. One mag was a non tuned STI mag and the other is a tuned SV mag. It is very sporadic, and I cant work out a pattern.

[10ring]

Could severe limp wristing cause this to happen? If the gun recoils hard, could the top round in the magazine slide forward?

Edited August 22, 2011 by 10ring

[JCReid]

A looser grip will make this happen easier. In which case the gun is being pushed back harder, it would require more tension on the round in the magazine to keep it from popping out, before the slide strips it out.

Edited August 22, 2011 by JCReid

[Siphon Odesse]

I'd like to know what calibre we're talking about, too. It happened occasionaly for me several years ago, when I practised with .40 mags in my 38 SC.

Could it be a combination of a very tight extractor and somewhat (or very) loose mag lips?

Regards,

Siphon

[GuyC]

This is a .40.

I made some dummy rounds with no powder and primers and tried to recreate it. I took the recoil system out and manually cycled the rounds. I found that sometimes it pops out of the mag in front of the extractor but I still cant figure out why.

The COAL on the dummy was 1.21

I forgot to turn off the radio... Sorry

I am having issues embeding but here is the link

Edited August 22, 2011 by GuyC

[JCReid]

Hand cycling the gun in that manner really does not tell you anything about how the gun cycles in live fire.

[10ring]

Does this happen with more than one magazine? Nice looking gun by the way.

[hdgun]

This is a .40.

I made some dummy rounds with no powder and primers and tried to recreate it. I took the recoil system out and manually cycled the rounds. I found that sometimes it pops out of the mag in front of the extractor but I still cant figure out why.

The COAL on the dummy was 1.21

I forgot to turn off the radio... Sorry

I am having issues embeding but here is the link

Try loading a little longer AOL. at least 1.150"

[want2race]

Not sure if this is exactly what is happening but I've had premature round ejection before. It did not require professional help.

As the slide closes it picks up the top round in the magazine (round number 1). Once that round exits the magazine and round number two pops up, it (round number two) is dragged forward by the underside of the slide. If you remove the magazine at this point you may see the round is sitting far farward.

When the slide opens again under recoil, round nuber two shifts foward a little more. When the slide stops at rear most position it causes the round to move in the opposite direction (forward). When it shifts forward it popes completely clear of the feed lips. As the slide returns foward, it picks up round number 3. Round number two is sitting on top of and in front of number 3. Slide pushes number 3, which pushes number 2 into the chamber. Failure to feed.

If this is actually what is happening, the feed lips are too wide and/or the spring is weak. Problems usually show up when there is only a few rounds left as the spring tension is less.

I load to 1.180 so the rounds can't shift that far forward and I tune the mags to have parrallel feed lips.

Edited after re-read:

The feedlips may be short during slow cycling (by hand) and the round clears the feedlips before it is held by the extractor. Non-controlled feeding. Older 1911 mags did this by design (some of them). If the extractor tension is too tight, and you have a non-controlled feed the extractor is not able to snap over the rim. Reduce the tension slightly and retest.

On Aftecs, I only use one of the two springs. Which spring location I use is determined by the caliber. Then I have 3 spares. I works for me.

Edited August 24, 2011 by want2race

[GuyC]

That sounds more like it. I feel as if the extractor hook was 100th lower it would engage the rim of the case sooner allowing for proper feeding. Its boxed up going back to SV and I am sure they will figure it out.

Not sure if this is exactly what is happening but I've had premature round ejection before. It did not require professional help.

As the slide closes it picks up the top round in the magazine (round number 1). Once that round exits the magazine and round number two pops up, it (round number two) is dragged forward by the underside of the slide. If you remove the magazine at this point you may see the round is sitting far farward.

When the slide opens again under recoil, round nuber two shifts foward a little more. When the slide stops at rear most position it causes the round to move in the opposite direction (forward). When it shifts forward it popes completely clear of the feed lips. As the slide returns foward, it picks up round number 3. Round number two is sitting on top of and in front of number 3. Slide pushes number 3, which pushes number 2 into the chamber. Failure to feed.

If this is actually what is happening, the feed lips are too wide and/or the spring is weak. Problems usually show up when there is only a few rounds left as the spring tension is less.

I load to 1.180 so the rounds can't shift that far forward and I tune the mags to have parrallel feed lips.

Edited after re-read:

The feedlips may be short during slow cycling (by hand) and the round clears the feedlips before it is held by the extractor. Non-controlled feeding. Older 1911 mags did this by design (some of them). If the extractor tension is too tight, and you have a non-controlled feed the extractor is not able to snap over the rim. Reduce the tension slightly and retest.

On Aftecs, I only use one of the two springs. Which spring location I use is determined by the caliber. Then I have 3 spares. I works for me.

[Ming the Merciless]

Not sure if this is exactly what is happening but I've had premature round ejection before. It did not require professional help.

As the slide closes it picks up the top round in the magazine (round number 1). Once that round exits the magazine and round number two pops up, it (round number two) is dragged forward by the underside of the slide. If you remove the magazine at this point you may see the round is sitting far farward.

When the slide opens again under recoil, round nuber two shifts foward a little more. When the slide stops at rear most position it causes the round to move in the opposite direction (forward). When it shifts forward it popes completely clear of the feed lips. As the slide returns foward, it picks up round number 3. Round number two is sitting on top of and in front of number 3. Slide pushes number 3, which pushes number 2 into the chamber. Failure to feed.

I've seen the SV removable breachface cause the same failure. The bottom of the breachface was slightly proud of the slide disconnector rail and was dragging on the next round in the magazine. The drag marks were clearly visible on the brass. Once the breachface was stoned level with the disconnector rail the problem went away.