Area 3 DQ's

[tk4]

This is why I posted in the first place, insulting comments like people moving faster than their skill level. These are the same people that shoot match after match and have very few if any previous DQs. Two other guys I know who are A shooters, who are very safe, and have been doing this for many years both DQed. At least one of them never DQed before.

I know I earned my DQ, but I also know I wasn't trying to outrun my skill level. I had 2 stages to go, knew I was shooting very well, and was in coasting mode.

The fact is the fact 11% of the shooters DQed. Yes, all or most of us earned it, one way or another. No, it wasn't 50% of the shooters, not even 20%. There was nothing ridiculous that you couldn't do if you just slowed down enough. But if 11% DQs became the norm at any one particular match, how many people would continue to invest their time and money traveling across the country to shoot it.

Will I be back next year. I hope I will be able to. I also hope the DQs are more like 2% or less next year, and I certainly hope I am not one of them.

[foilhat]

This was my first DQ 10.5.2. It happened at the end of what ever turns your crank. After showing clear, I went to reholster. The gun bounced off the top of the holster, when I went to re-holster I turned slightly and must have had the gun pointed behind me. It won't happen again, I will look the gun into the holster.

[Dan Hefta]

This was my first DQ 10.5.2. It happened at the end of what ever turns your crank. After showing clear, I went to reholster. The gun bounced off the top of the holster, when I went to re-holster I turned slightly and must have had the gun pointed behind me. It won't happen again, I will look the gun into the holster.

That's a bummer! My buddy was ROing that stage and he told me about your DQ. There were a lot of weird DQ's at this match that had nothing to do with the COF's. AD's, ammo at the Safety table, dropped guns... weird

[Matt P.]

This is why I posted in the first place, insulting comments like people moving faster than their skill level. These are the same people that shoot match after match and have very few if any previous DQs. Two other guys I know who are A shooters, who are very safe, and have been doing this for many years both DQed. At least one of them never DQed before.

I know I earned my DQ, but I also know I wasn't trying to outrun my skill level. I had 2 stages to go, knew I was shooting very well, and was in coasting mode.

The fact is the fact 11% of the shooters DQed. Yes, all or most of us earned it, one way or another. No, it wasn't 50% of the shooters, not even 20%. There was nothing ridiculous that you couldn't do if you just slowed down enough. But if 11% DQs became the norm at any one particular match, how many people would continue to invest their time and money traveling across the country to shoot it.

Will I be back next year. I hope I will be able to. I also hope the DQs are more like 2% or less next year, and I certainly hope I am not one of them.

I am certainly sorry that you were disqualified but I can say that 100% of the people who were, earned their DQ. As for people moving faster then their ability, well, I certainly witnessed it first hand from Masters and Even GM's .

Wide open targets are so tempting to shoot fast and move that I think people forget that it takes the same amount of time to shoot two A's versus a restricted target. Every Level III match has challenging stages (as it should be). At Nationals last year, I could name off at least 6 stages that were 180 traps "IF" you didn't pay attention. that's just part of the sport.

Again, 180 violations were less then half of the disqualifications.

the more serious concern to me is why there were so many Accidental Discharges from all classes of shooters.. A bullet fired not aimed at a target is a SERIOUS concern.

[Thomas H]

This is why I posted in the first place, insulting comments like people moving faster than their skill level.

I'm sorry you took it as an insult, as it certainly wasn't mean that way. I meant precisely what I said, in that people were moving faster and attempting to shoot faster than they could actually do it.

This is actually quite common, really. How many times do we see shooters of every level come back with poor points on a stage and say, "I should have slowed down?" or "Maybe I should have taken the time to aim." Pretty often, right?

This is just the same thing---if your movement is ahead of your shooting, or your sights are ahead of your trigger finger, then 1) you are going faster than your skill level allows, and 2) you are going to do poorly on that stage.

If you move into a position, shoot fast, then move out of the position, your skill level had better be such that you are fast enough to shoot AND retract the gun before moving uprange. (Especially if your movement uprange is very fast.) If you are shooting on the move, and your movement is quick, your trigger finger better be quick also or your movement will put you past targets before you are finished shooting at them. I could say similar things about reloads, ports, activators, etc---plenty of people, quite often, overrun their shooting ability.

At all levels.

(Ex: Leatham at the SC in Piru on Smoke and Hope. We've all seen the video--he is rockin' fast. And yet, I'll bet he'll tell you that he should have slowed down a tenth or two here and there, because he had an extra shot on almost every run, adding a lot more time than that extra tenth of a second would have. He's still faster than most everyone else---but he was overrunning his ability. Whenever we push things, that can happen. In Leatham's case, though, he's STILL faster than most even when he has to make up for it. )

If you think that M and GM types don't overrun their ability levels sometimes---then I think you need to think about it more. It isn't personal--it is something everyone does once in awhile when they push themselves. Recognizing when it is happening is important, in my opinion. And when it is too dangerous to try it.

On stage 12 (for example) everyone was told that wall was close, and that crowding it was problematic. Given that, recognizing that it is a spot to be careful (especially when a shooter is planning on pushing the envelope elsewhere) is important. Sometimes "important" means "I'll lose time here if I screw up" and sometimes "important" means "it isn't safe to screw up here."

[tk2]

I'll weigh in on this one. I did well at this match so I have no axe to grind.

I know some matches have 180 traps, but personaly, don't see any need for them. Especially if they are going to be unsafe. If you are going to have them they should be in safe place, not at the top of bay where if someone breaks the 180 they are pointing right at the bystanders. That is just unsafe in my opinion, and that is where they had some at this match.

Thomas H - What you call outrunning your abilities I call pushing the edge, and if you don't push over the edge once in a while you won't be winning many matches.

I saw too many quality, experienced shooters get DQ'd at this match, and you can say what you want, but when 31 people get DQ'd, something was wrong with the stage design. I agree the shooters have to take some of the blame, but that is just too many DQ's.

[Matt P.]

I'll weigh in on this one. I did well at this match so I have no axe to grind.

I saw too many quality, experienced shooters get DQ'd at this match, and you can say what you want, but when 31 people get DQ'd, something was wrong with the stage design. I agree the shooters have to take some of the blame, but that is just too many DQ's.

I completely disagree. How can stage design be responsible for an AD?

Also, aren't all 180's pointed back at the crowd?

[Skydiver]

There are two bits of interesting data. What was the distribution of the types of DQ's, and what was the distribution of the DQs among the stages.

I know after working a major match, the last thing that anybody involved wants to do is touch anything related to it. But the only way to do a postmortem is to go through the DQ sheets and tabulate thi type of DQ and which stages. That becomes more daunting when you know that there are 31 DQ sheets.

If anybody involved with the match email me a copy of the match webfile.txt which is what gets uploaded to USPSA for match results, the squad lists, and the squad model, I can make a pretty good guess of the distribution of DQ's among the stages and post them here. Unfortunately, I won't be able to give a distribution of the types of DQ's since that isn't recorded in EzWinScore.

As I think about that match more, I do not envy the job of the Range Master for that match. He must have been hopping from place to place with that number of DQs, and then add on the other things that require an RM's attention like steel calibration challenges, scoring challenges, equipment rulings, etc. I hope that the RM and MD had a good round of drinks after the match.

[Singlestack]

This has turned into a Match bash.

CLOSED