Should I switch from Bullseye for 9mm reloads?

[perlslacker]

My current 9mm load is ~3.2gr of Bullseye under 147gr RNFP cast lead bullets loaded at a 1.14" OAL. It's soft shooting and knocks steel over real well.

However, it also leaves a lot of unburned powder in the barrel, leads quite a bit, and is dirty as hell. I've been told that unburned powder is typically caused by a very light charge, but according to the Lyman manual this is a mid-high load for this bullet type. Searching these forums, I've also noticed that basically no one uses Bullseye for this bullet type and caliber. People seem to prefer Solo1000 or Winchester 231, which are also fast powders, but no one uses Bullseye!

Am I missing something? Maybe Bullseye does better with more case capacity and lower pressures (which may be why it's so popular with 38 Special and 45 ACP shooters)? I'm happy with what I have but I'll always wonder if I could have something better.

[19852]

If you like Bullseye keep using it, don't let anybody tell you it won't/doesn't work. You have already identified several downsides, dirty, unburned powder, etc. For me there are several better alternatives, e.g., VV N320, Ramshot Comp, WST, for starters. Do some research and listen to the experiences of others.

Best,

19852

[Peakbagr]

I've shot Bulleye for years in .45, .38, .38super, .9mm and .357. For whatever reason, it is one of the most accurate powders in any of my shooters.

Bullseye is the 'standard' powder for bullsye competition.

The problem with Bullseye is that it is filthy. Brass, barrel, chamber, cylinder, all black and grimy. I've kept with it for a long time in spite of those issues but have been experimenting with other powders the last few years...As you mentioned, Solo 1000 and 231 as well as others.

[anachronism]

If it's working, I wouldn't change. Bullseye is a bit dirty, but have you ever tried Tightgroup? It's horrible with cast bullets, leaving soot all over the place, and smoking like a train. A lot of the dirt you're experiencing is from bullet lube. It all wipes off, and the gun requires periodic cleaning anyway. It would be different if the gun was getting tied up during matches because it's too dirty.

[perlslacker]

If it's working, I wouldn't change.

It's working for now. I'm getting started in competitive shooting with IDPA club matches, and the round count is fairly low (~100 rounds) but the gun is still filthy even after that little amount of shooting. I don't know how many rounds it takes to affect functioning but cleaner is still better.

I've been told that the softest-shooting loads for a given PF are heavy cast bullets pushed by a fast powder. If this is true, I'm wondering if there's another fast powder that works better for 9mm cast lead than Bullseye. Also I don't have a full-size pistol for competition yet, and I think (may be wrong) that faster powders let me get more velocity out of my short-barreled compacts.

Bullseye is a bit dirty, but have you ever tried Tightgroup? It's horrible with cast bullets, leaving soot all over the place, and smoking like a train.

So Titegroup is out I guess

A lot of the dirt you're experiencing is from bullet lube. It all wipes off, and the gun requires periodic cleaning anyway. It would be different if the gun was getting tied up during matches because it's too dirty.

I've been told that moly coated bullets are less smoky and lead less in general, while being almost as cheap as cast lead. That would certainly address the smoky lube problem. I might order some Bayou Bullets when I work through my cast lead bullets.

[oak hill]

You will like moly coated bullets. they are a bit more $ than cast, but well worth it since there is no leading or smoke.

[CeeZer]

My current 9mm load is ~3.2gr of Bullseye under 147gr RNFP cast lead bullets loaded at a 1.14" OAL. It's soft shooting and knocks steel over real well.

However, it also leaves a lot of unburned powder in the barrel, leads quite a bit, and is dirty as hell. I've been told that unburned powder is typically caused by a very light charge, but according to the Lyman manual this is a mid-high load for this bullet type. Searching these forums, I've also noticed that basically no one uses Bullseye for this bullet type and caliber. People seem to prefer Solo1000 or Winchester 231, which are also fast powders, but no one uses Bullseye!

Am I missing something? Maybe Bullseye does better with more case capacity and lower pressures (which may be why it's so popular with 38 Special and 45 ACP shooters)? I'm happy with what I have but I'll always wonder if I could have something better.

Just my own .02... Canadian, it's worth a bit more (pun was intended):

I'm using 124gr plated bullets for reasons that make sense to me - no leading, no lube to use (and spend $$ on) and to make loads smoky, smoother chambering, and cleaner, easier and faster ammo reloading process in general. I buy Berry's bullets, they are almost as cheap as lead unless you cast your own bullets. Some prefer 147gr, I find them slooowish, cycling the gun it is. If splits' time isn't important to you (and you can more effectively shave off time on transitions between targets) then slower cycling isn't an enemy at all. It's easier to go from .50sec transition to .40sec than .16sec split to .08sec split and you gain more!!! You shave off .10 sec as opposed to .08sec. Then again, I get decent discount buying 10K bullets at a time.

Solo 1000 is reportedly a good powder but also has wide variations in properties from lot to lot (bottle to bottle). That would require chronoing your loads again and developing another load with same bullet and powder.. just to make PF = no fun and waste of time.

I never tried WST or W231/HP38 but tried a few other powders in 9mm Para (a.k.a. Luger) caliber; I settled on Clays and am as happy as a clam. Soft, clean burning (shot 4500rds without cleaning gun once to test function and reliability), cheap powder with low charge per round. Makes PF quite easily. Low flash in low light or pitch black night conditions (I practice that once in a while) so you won't get blinded by your own gun. Low smoke - important if you practice indoor with poor ventilation Do that once a week too.

Also, in general, you need to use slower burning powder with heavier bullets. IMHO, ideal powders for 147gr bullets will in VV N320- VV N340 range on powder burning rate table. Also, VihtaVuori is by far the best powder one can get off a store shelf.

When looking for powder choice - look at the loading table and make sure your load will make PF by making velocity without going over max load. And if you wanna save $$ - pay attention to powder charge weight for that powder. There is difference in shooting costs if you load 6.5gr vs 3.2gr of a powder per round depending on powders' price per LB too.

I'd also suggest TiteGroup for 147gr bullets if they were not lead cast (too much smoke). TG is pretty much a 'staple' 9mm powder for those on budget. Well, I still (at this time) like Clays better.

The best,

cz

[noylj]

The only reason I can even think to worry about "dirty powder" is if it interferes with functioning. Since I generally shoot about 10k rounds of 200gn L-SWC and 6.0gn Unique without any functioning problems between cleanings, I only see it as an aesthetic issue. YMMV.

The only complaint you have that should be addressed is leading, and that IS NOT Bullseye's fault.

Are your bullets at least 0.001" over the barrel groove diameter? If you haven't slugged your barrel, you need to. I find 0.357" lead bullets work well in most guns, but 9mm barrels can have groove diameters up to 0.362" or so.

Right now, unless you are casting your own bullets, I find that jacketed bullets from Montana Gold, Zero, or Precision Delta cost as little or less than plated and are only 1-2 cents/bullet more than some of the less expensive commercial cast bullets. Buy 6-12k jacketed bullets now. I really like the Zero .38 Super 121gn JHP for 9x19, 9x21, and .38 Super.

[perlslacker]

Right now, unless you are casting your own bullets, I find that jacketed bullets from Montana Gold, Zero, or Precision Delta cost as little or less than plated and are only 1-2 cents/bullet more than some of the less expensive commercial cast bullets. Buy 6-12k jacketed bullets now. I really like the Zero .38 Super 121gn JHP for 9x19, 9x21, and .38 Super.

Either you are a way better bargain shopper than I am on FMJ bullets, or you're way worse at shopping for cast lead

PD's 147gr bullets are $95/1000 shipped, but 147gr cast lead from J&K is $61/1000 (local pickup). I live on a graduate stipend so paying an extra $30/1000 is a significant expense for me.

I've been meaning to slug my bore though. I've been getting "good enough" results with my current setup so I've been lazy about taking all the steps you need to take to really get the most out of cast lead bullets.

Edited August 17, 2011 by perlslacker

[noylj]

Right now, unless you are casting your own bullets, I find that jacketed bullets from Montana Gold, Zero, or Precision Delta cost as little or less than plated and are only 1-2 cents/bullet more than some of the less expensive commercial cast bullets. Buy 6-12k jacketed bullets now. I really like the Zero .38 Super 121gn JHP for 9x19, 9x21, and .38 Super.

Either you are a way better bargain shopper than I am on FMJ bullets, or you're way worse at shopping for cast lead

PD's 147gr bullets are $95/1000 shipped, but 147gr cast lead from J&K is $61/1000 (local pickup). I live on a graduate stipend so paying an extra $30/1000 is a significant expense for me.

I've been meaning to slug my bore though. I've been getting "good enough" results with my current setup so I've been lazy about taking all the steps you need to take to really get the most out of cast lead bullets.

Well, if your goal is to save as much money as possible, then you are right. In fact, you should be casting your own.

I don't know J&K, but for me, the difference between Montana Gold's 125gn JHP at $308/3750 ($83.13/1000) is well worth it for the quality of bullet, compared to $61/1000--and I don't have local pickup. The Montana Gold price includes shipping.

Many people shoot MG 147gn CMJ which runs $313/3000 ($104.33/1000).

I have been shooting lead in my 9x19s for about 35 years, but with many of my cast bullet sources charging $75-105/1000, I would rather have the jacketed bullets.

Penn Bullets (great quality) is charging $78/1000 for 147gn RNFP.

Precision Bullets (great quality in moly-kote bullets) is charging $78/1000.

Magnus wants $39.83/500 for their 147gn L-FP.

Oregon Trails wants $104.50/1000 for their 145gn L-FP.

Dardas wants $70/1000 for their 147gn L-RNFP.

At this point, spending just a little over 8 cents per bullet for first class jacketed bullets seems like a really easy decision with my normal sources wanting 7-10+ cents per bullet.