Jody Waring Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 If a shooter new to CZ's asked you what they need for a spring combo and ammunition requirements for reliability, what would you all recommend? Does anyone run heavier than or lighter than a 11 lb recoil spring and why? What about the factory one? Also have you had better luck with longer OAL's, or shorter? Have you found the Shadows more reliable with higher power factor ammo? The hotter the better? Or can they be reliable with mousefart loads? Appreciate the input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxerjunky Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I shoot a shadow with a 11lb recoil spring. I'm using mostly factory ammo and some reloads. I would not recommend using anything hotter than factory ammo with a light recoil spring. Also self defense ammo is not recommended for the 11lb spring. I would use a factory spring for that. I have 3k+ rounds through my shadow without any issues. I had a fail to feed but I went almost 1k rounds without cleaning lol. I felt like being harsh I guess. My CZ is as reliable as anything else I have seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share Posted June 12, 2011 Ok with your reloads, what bullet and oal are you running? Power factor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxerjunky Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 The bullet is a MG 124 FMJ over 3.9 gr VV n320 at oal 1.15. I think that is right on the edge of too long though. This is off the top of my head so if something sounds off it could be. I'll have to dig them out and see for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) Mike. Edited June 12, 2011 by ck1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) I run lots and lots of WWB and Federal Champion from Wallymart without issue using an 11lb recoil spring. I've even run a hundred or so of +P 124gr Gold Dots (my usual carry stuff) without an issue and while the brass gets thrown into low earth orbit, it works fine and is just as reliable as it is with FMJ. I'm not at all concerned about frame battering with a little of the hot stuff, I don't plan on running hundreds more of the carry stuff, but know it's reliable for HD if ever needed, though, that said, I'd be 100% confident in a 13 or 14lb spring in a dedicated defense role. I've also ran a couple hundred of "bunnyfart" reloads a friend gave me with the 11lb spring, ran like a watch, no issues. I don't know what the running record is, but I just got a couple FTF's today in my 75 Shadow after near 3000rds since it's last cleaning. I've given it a couple squirts of TW-25B on the rails a couple times over that time (at 1500 and at around 2500, both times meaning to clean the sucker but then not getting a chance). I put a couple little beads in the barrel lug recesses after the FTF's as it was obvious the gun was just gunked up and dry,my fault, not the gun's, shot another 3 USPSA stages near 100rds, ran perfectly (but guess I should clean it finally). Edited June 12, 2011 by ck1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share Posted June 12, 2011 Obviously, if I am having jams with the 11 lb spring with ammo that easily makes power factor- I should take the spring weight out of the equation? I had figured as much, I definitely have a feeding problem and I need to get it sorted out. I am going to load some dummy rounds and look to see what the problem is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) Jody, What caliber, what bullet profile, and what type of pistol? I run a TS in .40, and I find that OAL is determined by the bullet profile. I run RNFP 180gr BBI, or Bear Creek. I load them at around 1.135. That ensures that the head of the cartridge will slip under the extractor, and clear the ejector before the feed ramp on the barrel starts to move the round up the breechface. Too long, and the round will slide under the extractor and slide up the breechface contacting the still protruding ejector. Nosedive! So keeping your ammo on the short side is a good idea with CZ pistols. edited to correct my OAL Edited June 13, 2011 by JimmyZip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Obviously, if I am having jams with the 11 lb spring with ammo that easily makes power factor- I should take the spring weight out of the equation? I had figured as much, I definitely have a feeding problem and I need to get it sorted out. I am going to load some dummy rounds and look to see what the problem is. What gun, or really, what mags? In my experience if it's the SP-01/Shadow 19rd mags then the factory mag springs run from weak, if you're lucky, to just plain pathetic... the +10% mag springs are pretty much a must, if you're running 19 rounders I'll bet that's what's getting you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 They are those mags limited to 10 rounds, so I guess I should order up some springs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 They are those mags limited to 10 rounds, so I guess I should order up some springs? Yes. Kinda sucks, but it's pretty much an essential part of Shadow-ownership, for whatever reason, our Czech friends build one awesome blaster, then throw the same springs into the 19rd mags that are already kind of weak in their 16rd mags. I'd be really surprised if the +10% springs don't cure your issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 I will be ordering some up, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 I will be ordering some up, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeZer Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 (edited) AFAIK, factory recoil spring in stock Shadow (what we get in Canada) is 18# as well as main spring which is also 18#. My personal take is, 11# recoil spring is too light for factory ammo, 14# or 15# should be safe and offer reliable feeding and extraction/ejection. Another thing to consider - slide stop gets more stress and lasts less with stronger recoil spring as it gets hit when slide goes forward. On the other hand - slide hits frame harder with weaker recoil spring. This is why recoil spring needs to match ammo (PF) to insure proper and safe cycling, no short stroking and no unnecessary additional stress. Also, if recoil spring is much too weak, gun may not chamber ammo well as recoil spring is what makes slide travel forward while stripping new round from mag and feeding it into chamber, going thru overcoming friction, mag spring tension and so on. Main spring should not be less than 16# for factory ammo either, to offer reliable primer ignition of various ammo makes; like Blazer (CCI), S&B and few others. Well, unless one uses extended firing pin and... cuts a few coils off firing pin spring... As far as OAL goes: a buddy of mine just bought and loaded a bunch of Berry's 147gr plated bullets and used OAL of 1.169" - all chamber and shoot just fine, no touchy of rifling no interference with slide stop's knub either It was quite interesting to SEE bullets in flight tonight as we practiced outside till 10pm, with lights shining from behind. It was first reported by another shooter when I was shooting plates, then I watched others and could only see bullets in flight (right from muzzle to the plate) that were those mentioned above 147gr Berry's , I didn't see bullets from factory ammo other guys used thou. Me and the other guy use different powders (I use Clays and he does TG) and different bullets (mine are 124gr and his are 147gr), thou both are made by Berry's. I find that quite interesting to say the least. What he also reported was that Berry's shot right at POA while CamPro he used to use before were shooting high, both being 147gr plated bullets. And, it wasn't Rob if you are wondering Edited June 18, 2011 by CeeZer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
az_shooter_11 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I had two failures to feed today in a match in my new cz custom shop shadow with around 1000 rounds through it, shooting remmington factory ammo, it's short, using new cz 19 round mags loaded to 10 rounds for production. So do I need to change the springs in the mags or the recoil spring which is 11 lbs now? Two other shooters of the exact same gun said I needed to lube the heck out of it and wear it in, thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 I always find myself running into problems when I stray away from ammo i know that works. I went back to my load of 4.2 of titegroup with a fmj although I set my oal to 1.10-1.105 and the zed ate up a couple hundred rounds without a burp. If your ammo is fairly light it might not generate enough impulse to cycle the gun properly. The 11 pound spring should be ok however, lube it up and get some rounds through it is the best advice I can give. These things improve with use! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
az_shooter_11 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I always find myself running into problems when I stray away from ammo i know that works. I went back to my load of 4.2 of titegroup with a fmj although I set my oal to 1.10-1.105 and the zed ate up a couple hundred rounds without a burp. If your ammo is fairly light it might not generate enough impulse to cycle the gun properly. The 11 pound spring should be ok however, lube it up and get some rounds through it is the best advice I can give. These things improve with use! Thanks, I guess coming from a Glock and XD which will pretty much run without any oil I am just not oiling the gun enough, after my failure to feed on stage 2 today I oiled the gun before every stage and had no issues. The two shooters that I talked to (one a National Champ) joked they had oil dripping off their guns, so I will pour it on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 Get yourself some mobol 1 synthetic, I really like using it. I believe I read a post a while back and that is what Angus recommends, and I have been using it ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
az_shooter_11 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Get yourself some mobol 1 synthetic, I really like using it. I believe I read a post a while back and that is what Angus recommends, and I have been using it ever since. Interesting, I wish Angus/Robert would have mentioned that today, as they shot the match with me! To be fair, I only spoke to Robert and he thought the problem was my ammunition but I confirmed it wasn't when I ran four different kinds through the gun when I got home, problem was lubrication. Do you use 15w-50? How do you apply? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneBray Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Very cool about the bullets. Don't forget that during the sliding cycling two springs are compressed--the recoil spring and the main spring. Both must be balanced to the bullet and load. AFAIK, factory recoil spring in stock Shadow (what we get in Canada) is 18# as well as main spring which is also 18#. My personal take is, 11# recoil spring is too light for factory ammo, 14# or 15# should be safe and offer reliable feeding and extraction/ejection. Another thing to consider - slide stop gets more stress and lasts less with stronger recoil spring as it gets hit when slide goes forward. On the other hand - slide hits frame harder with weaker recoil spring. This is why recoil spring needs to match ammo (PF) to insure proper and safe cycling, no short stroking and no unnecessary additional stress. Also, if recoil spring is much too weak, gun may not chamber ammo well as recoil spring is what makes slide travel forward while stripping new round from mag and feeding it into chamber, going thru overcoming friction, mag spring tension and so on. Main spring should not be less than 16# for factory ammo either, to offer reliable primer ignition of various ammo makes; like Blazer (CCI), S&B and few others. Well, unless one uses extended firing pin and... cuts a few coils off firing pin spring... As far as OAL goes: a buddy of mine just bought and loaded a bunch of Berry's 147gr plated bullets and used OAL of 1.169" - all chamber and shoot just fine, no touchy of rifling no interference with slide stop's knub either It was quite interesting to SEE bullets in flight tonight as we practiced outside till 10pm, with lights shining from behind. It was first reported by another shooter when I was shooting plates, then I watched others and could only see bullets in flight (right from muzzle to the plate) that were those mentioned above 147gr Berry's , I didn't see bullets from factory ammo other guys used thou. Me and the other guy use different powders (I use Clays and he does TG) and different bullets (mine are 124gr and his are 147gr), thou both are made by Berry's. I find that quite interesting to say the least. What he also reported was that Berry's shot right at POA while CamPro he used to use before were shooting high, both being 147gr plated bullets. And, it wasn't Rob if you are wondering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 Just light stuff 5w30.. I clean the gun thoroughly and I use a q-tip and put a thin coat on the rails, inside of the slide where the barrel rests, a light film over the whole barrel, inside the kidney bean slot where the slide stop goes, and around the hammer and sear and a tiny bit on all of the springs. I put the gun together and hand cycle it vigorously and then wipe off the excess. Periodically throughout a match I will go to the safety area and give it a wipe down. I clean my guns after every use, so I dont mind an oily gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeZer Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I use Mobil 1 as well, 10w30 regular oil, not 'high mileage' or anything like that. Less additives is better!! If you live in area with high temps like 80+ - use 10w40 or 15w40 during summer. I use Q-tip, dip it into bottle with oil and then run it against rails on frame from mid section forward only, inside the rails. Then oil barrel on outside only where wear marks are (lugs and just behind muzzle). DO NOT over oil it. CYCLE the slide half a dozen times, at least!!! Don't oil feed ramp, chamber or inside of the barrel!! Make sure there is no oil on ejector tip or you risk getting stovepipes!!! Take all excess oil off with a cloth after assembly and cycling the gun. Also, run the mags completely dry, no oil anywhere in or out!!! My gun is well broken in (25K+ rnds), and I smoothed all the areas that contact other parts (with emery boards, jewelers’ file, knife sharpening stones and so on). If the gun is 'smoothed', then there is no need to run it 'wet'. Mine runs 'dry' 100% as well. I once ran it thru 4500rds without any cleaning just to see if it was gonna run reliably, and it did!!! Also, no parts have ever broken on me so far, after 25K+ rds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now