CZ 75/85 family

[mcoliver]

ipsc1,

If you can get a letter from the factory detailing the specs your gun has indicating that it's a factory option, I think you're good to go. However, Vince would probably be the best person to answer you. Worst case is, he says ok and WS Ecuador says no, you can always run to him for assistance.

[Vince Pinto]

On the IPSC production list there is an entry "Stock Custom" under the Tangfolio pistols. Is this the "Stock" pistol shown on the Tangfolio website, or does that mean a "Stock" pistol plus whatever custom work I ask the factory to do.

The "Stock Custom" is indeed a specific model handgun available from Tanfoglio, and can be seen here - note that the "Buzz" version is not approved due to the Hybrid system.

The IPSC approved gun list only includes guns in specific configurations - you cannot just buy components from a gun manufacturer and then mix 'n' match.

Hope this helps.

[Skywalker]

On the IPSC production list there is an entry " Stock Custom" under the Tangfolio pistols. Is this the "Stock" pistol shown on the Tangfolio website, or does that mean a "Stock" pistol plus whatever custom work I ask the factory to do.

ipsc1,

the gun Vince linked is the"Stock" model approved for IPSC Production Division. Tanfoglio just named that model "Stock" because here in Italy it was quite common in the early days of Production to call it Stock Division, and that gun was made for it.

Christmas is coming and I'm think of a Tangfolio Stock pistol, with custom frame (long dust cover and magwell), big ambi safties like those shown on the gold custom, chrome mags with aluminum basepads. Would that combination be considered production legal?

I don't know if it already hit the market, and moreover if and when this gun will be included in the approved list by IPSC, but a long dustcover Stock gun from Tanfoglio has been announced a couple of months ago. I haven't been able to find any detailed description on the net, but AFAIR it was similar to their .40 Limited HC model (with fiber-optic front sight but no magwell).

[ipsc1]

The IPSC approved gun list only includes guns in specific configurations - you cannot just buy components from a gun manufacturer and then mix 'n' match.

Ok, now I'm confused. I thought that for a gun on the list, any option available from the factory for that gun was legal, even if the option was not available at the time of purchase.

ie. if CZ was to start offering a fibre optic front sight on their CZ85, I could replace the original sight on my 85 with a new factory fiber optic.

I don't think I'm talking about options that are not available for the "Stock" model, I'm talking about ordering a specific firearm from the manufacturer, with set of options from a list of options available for the 'Stock" model , assembled at the factory, or their custom shop.

I have an email off to their North American importers asking about availability of the "Stock" model and which options are offered for that model, but have not heard back from them yet.

So , other than asking here or privately via email to the powers that be, how do I know which options/configurations, offered by the factory are legal in Production division. The list only lists models of firearms, not specific configurations.

ipsc1

[Skywalker]

ipsc1,

if the gun is on the list, and if you add OFM accessories specifically marketed for that gun model, you're legal (or you should be ).

I'm not sure Tanfoglio is marketing magwells for the Stock model, not that I know of. The SS magwell depicted on their site is specifically for Limited HC models. The same goes for the ambi safety they sell.

I guess you can buy Tanfoglio fiber optic front sights for the Stock, but I guess there isn't much more than that.

Let me know what they'll answer (if they do).

[RogerT]

IPSC Production Division rules, a summary:

1. Only guns on the approved gun list may be used. Note that while the CZ75 and CZ85 are individually approved, a hybrid CZ is not approved.

2. Parts and components offered by the original firearm manufacturer ("OFM") for the specific gun you want to shoot are permitted except for +2 magazine base plates (see Point 19 of Appendix D4 for full details).

3. Parts and components offered by aftermarket manufacturers are prohibited except we allow some leeway in respect of sights, magazines and grips (see Point 20 of Appendix D4 for full details).

Quote ipsc1 "I thought that for a gun on the list, any option available from the factory for that gun was legal, even if the option was not available at the time of purchase.

ie. if CZ was to start offering a fibre optic front sight on their CZ85, I could replace the original sight on my 85 with a new factory fiber optic.

I don't think I'm talking about options that are not available for the "Stock" model, I'm talking about ordering a specific firearm from the manufacturer, with set of options from a list of options available for the 'Stock" model , assembled at the factory, or their custom shop." End Quote

ipsc1, I think you are right, as long there is a CZ made option to the model you have it's OK.

When CZ offers a fibre optic sight to CZ85, all owners of this model may fit any fibre optic "of the same kind and type" to their guns.

[Flexmoney]

Sounds like you are trying to build up a "custom" gun for Production division. It also sounds like you might be following all the rules for IPSC.

Vince has stated here (more than once) that IPSC Production's main litmus test is a gun that doesn't have a single-action trigger. And, that he'd like to see the factory come out with better guns for IPSC.

Interesting.

[Vince Pinto]

..... as long there is a CZ made option to the model you have it's OK. When CZ offers a fibre optic sight to CZ85, all owners of this model may fit any fibre optic "of the same kind and type" to their guns.

Correct, even retroactively. Hence if tomorrow Glock offer fibre-optic 3-dot sights as an option on all models, then I can fit Glock (or aftermarket) fibre-optic 3-dot sights on my 10 year old Glock 21.

Vince has stated here (more than once) that IPSC Production's main litmus test is a gun that doesn't have a single-action trigger.  And, that he'd like to see the factory come out with better guns for IPSC.

Correct again (I think we're on a roll here!). When gun manufacturers offer what competitors want on their guns, in compliance with IPSC rules, that's a good thing, as they are responding to the market and honouring IPSC rules. Just look at what people like SVI did for Modified Division!

What we don't want is for competitors to take, say, a $600 gun and go nuts spending another $1,000 or more on trigger jobs, "go faster" stripes and widgets to create a unique gun (a.k.a. a "prototype"). If the factory offers more options which are available to all comers, that's a big difference, because it would be (drum roll) a Production Gun!

Are we having fun yet?

Anyway, gotta go watch the Olympics now, so y'all behave yourself while I'm gone, ya'hear?

[Flexmoney]

Of course...I wasn't implying that that was a good idea.

[Eye Cutter]

vince, is the new CZ SP01 tactical on the approved ipsc PD list already?

[Vince Pinto]

Yes Pare.

See the IPSC list here (and the USPSA additions here, for matches held in the USA).

The subject gun is currently shown as "P-01", but I'll ask the Webmaster to expand the listing to match the full model designation. Should be cleared up by the weekend.

POSTSCRIPT: The CZ SP-01 Tactical is, in fact, a different (full sized) model to the P-01, so both models will shortly appear on the list of approved CZ models. My apologies for the confusion, whcih arose as a result of my replying from memory before checking my file notes.

[Eye Cutter]

Yes Pare.

See the IPSC list here (and the USPSA additions here, for matches held in the USA).

The subject gun is currently shown as "P-01", but I'll ask the Webmaster to expand the listing to match the full model designation. Should be cleared up by the weekend.

thanks vince, see ya in Bali!

edited to add: you can also use Pards instead of Pare! :-) as in " Yes, Pards!"

[iron guns rule]

funny,

to see a gun already approved for production when it's not even availlable for the public.....

for the moment it seems to me the p01 tactical is nothing more than a prototype.....

greetings

[Flexmoney]

igr,

In USPSA Production we have the "2000 produced" limit. But, I think that goes away with the new rule book.

[Vince Pinto]

funny, to see a gun already approved for production when it's not even availlable for the public ..... for the moment it seems to me the p01 tactical is nothing more than a prototype.....

Interesting comment, given that the P-01 is listed in the CZ-USA 2004 pricelist, which shows it has a MSRP of US$569 (while the "regular" CZ Compact has an MSRP of US$538).

[Flexmoney]

I have seen them in the local gun store.

[9MX]

Yes Pare.

See the IPSC list here (and the USPSA additions here, for matches held in the USA).

The subject gun is currently shown as "P-01", but I'll ask the Webmaster to expand the listing to match the full model designation. Should be cleared up by the weekend.

thanks vince, see ya in Bali!

edited to add: you can also use Pards instead of Pare! :-) as in " Yes, Pards!"

for the newbie of me, i thought vince is pinoy.

[iron guns rule]

vince,

i know the p01 is for sale ......but that's the model with the hamerdrop.

the "tactical" is a different gun !! (i handled the gun in chez during the nationals....)

greetings

[jkushner1]

I don't know if anyone we'll see this late post, but RogerT - CZ's may be inexpensive, but dollar for dollar, they are probably one of the best guns made - The Czech's know their shi*. I have STI's - custom and stock, Tanfoglio's, Colts, CZ, Para's, Caspian's, Glock's, etc. (all of them for IPSC/IDPA/Steel - no SVI) and my CZ IPSC Std. is one of the best designed, best built, best operating, longest lasting guns going. The IPSC Std. trigger design is simple and excellent. Their rifles shoot like an Anschutz and cost like a Hugo. I know the IPSC Std. is a different gun from the run of the mill CZ 75/85B, but is still the same basic platform. Be proud of your CZ.

Vince, since your the moderator, I know that you were ribbing Angus, as he is the #1 CZ factory sponsored shooter - I think he's Euro IPSC Champ as well. Saw him at the Area 8's - very strong.

[RogerT]

Hi jkushner1!

Of course I (we) read all posts in this topic!! (93 replies, this is a long lived one!)

I still like CZ, but not the 75B for IPSC Production when it isn't allowed to fix the trigger and fit a thin and high front sight (from the IPSC Standard model) so I shoot it in Standard division, but Minor sucks......

I actually shot with an untrimmed Glock 17 instead and did well at the Nordic Championship this summer!

And I tried out Revolver divison with a borrowed S&W 625 and didn't make a complete fool of my self (only some minor brain farts.. ) so I'm actually thinking of selling the pistol and by me a 625.........

[Vince Pinto]

for the newbie of me, i thought vince is pinoy. 

Puti Pinoy ako na lang, pero a proud Honorary Life Member of the PPSA.

i know the p01 is for sale ......but that's the model with the hamerdrop. the "tactical" is a different gun !! (i handled the gun in chez during the nationals....)

The CZ factory called me today and explained there are, in fact, three models (!!) namely the P-01, the SP-01 and the SP-01 Tactical. Apparently the difference between the last two is that one has a decocker and the other one doesn't. Anyway, the P-01 and the SP-01 Tactical are already on the approved gun list and I should have the 3rd model on the list by the weekend in time for the EURO 2004.

Vince, since your the moderator, I know that you were ribbing Angus, as he is the #1 CZ factory sponsored shooter  - I think he's Euro IPSC Champ as well. Saw him at the Area 8's - very strong.

Me? Rib Angus?? Well, OK, we certainly tease each other from time to time but, from my side, it's not because I'm a Moderator - it's because I'll never forgive him for driving like a maniac on narrow Greek island roads way back in 1998 (and my cojones still haven't fallen back into place). However I'm actually very proud of him.

[Eye Cutter]

POSTSCRIPT: The CZ SP-01 Tactical is, in fact, a different (full sized) model to the P-01, so both models will shortly appear on the list of approved CZ models. My apologies for the confusion, whcih arose as a result of my replying from memory before checking my file notes.

vince: so that means that I can't use the 18round magazines that come in the SP01 tactical in my 85B??? Please say it ain't so!

[jkushner1]

Thank gents for the additional commentary. I just have one more comment/question (Of course, absolutely no insult, affront or harm meant). How does a guy from Spain end up with a name that sounds like he's from one the feircest clans in all of the Northern Highlands of Scotland (i.e. Angus). If my humour is inappropriate, please just delete.

Thanks,

Jon

[Vince Pinto]

vince: so that means that I can't use the 18round magazines that come in the SP01 tactical in my 85B??? Please say it ain't so!

The only magazines you can use with your gun are those which are OFM standard equipment for your particular model gun or aftermarket magazines with the same external dimensions as the OFM standard. See Appendix D4, Points 19.2 and 20.1 of the January 2004 rulebook.

How does a guy from Spain end up with a name that sounds like he's from one the feircest clans in all of the Northern Highlands of Scotland (i.e. Angus).

Angus Hobdell is British, not Spanish. For a period of time, he lived in Spain but now he lives in Arizona.

As far as representation is concerned, a competitor can normally only shoot for his Region of residence, as defined by IPSC rules. However if he happens to also be a citizen of another Region, he is entitled to instead shoot for his Region of citizenship provided that the Regional Directors of both Regions (residence and citizenship) agree in writing (see Section 6.5 of the rulebook).

[Angus Hobdell]

Not sure if this is the right place for this post, but just got back from the Europeans where after initial consultation at the CZ factory in Uhersky Brod, I changed all my plans for the match 5 days before the start, I put aside the CZ75 that I had brought with me, changed magazines and ammunition, (Thanks Libra Ammunition from CZ) and went to work training to use the NEW SP01 TActical at the match.

The SP01 definitly has some advantages, overall heavier weight, heavier barrel, better sights, it definitly easier to shoot the doubles, but the weight does make the transitions a little slower but not significantly. I have not had the time to make comparisons but needless to say CZ are trying to get me the gun to the US before the NAtionals :-)

I did during the match manage a .08 split from the gun last pair of shot, the RO was impressed and the 2 A's were only 1" appart (close target)

VINCE looks like I may be going to Bali, so you still owe me the beer and I will of course rent the car. LOL

I have to say a little off thread that this was probably one of the BEST run matches I have EVER been too. Well done Josef and Crew