Dropping a loaded magazine.

[Ty Hamby]

Here is what happened to me.

Shooting from P2 (final position) behind cover I go to slide-lock. While retrieving magazine from pouch I drop it. I go for magazine #3 load and finish course of fire. I was issued a PE for not retrieving magazine #2 from ground prior to completion of the COF. Was this PE an error.

Scenario #2

While shooting from the final position, emergency reload. While swinging hand from belt with magazine #2 in had it launches out of my hand and lands 15 feet away. I go for #3 magazine and successfully finish the COF. Again I got a PE for loaded ammo on the ground.

According to Robert Ray's clarification below. Any loaded magazines from mag pouch that fall on ground as a result of a reloadis not a PE as long as the position of cover is not left. (cant leave any ammo behind). Of course if it falls out of the magazine carrier while running or hitting a prop then it would be a PE whether or not it is recovered or not.

Am I correct in thinking the PE's were an error to issue?

Using the example of the classifier. If the shooter is making a RWR or tac-load and drops the partially charged magazine he must pick it up before firing his first shot as per the rule book on page 41. Failure to do so would result in a procedural. The ammo specified that must be retained is the ammo coming out of the gun. It has to be picked up or else you will have shooters going OOPS, I dropped it and essentially doing a speed reload.

Using the same example of the classifier. If the shooter does a RWR and properly stows a partial magazine then while drawing the full magazine drops it, he may go to his belt for another magazine with out incurring a procedural. He has not left that position of cover and there for not left ammo behind. That being said, if a shooter moves to another position he/she must pick up the magazine. This is covered in the rule book on page 39. Ammunition carrier notes: 1. A three second PE will be assessed anytime a loaded ammunition feeding device is dislodged and falls out of the carrier during a CoF. Dropping a loaded ammunition feeding device during a reload is not a procedural as long as the competitor does not leave ammunition behind. The first part of that rule is referring to moving through a CoF and knocking out a loaded ammunition feeding device, either by yourself or against a prop, but not while reloading. The second part refers to dropping a magazine while reloading.

The last is partially covered above. If a shooter is moving through a CoF and by any action, other than reloading, dislodges a loaded ammunition feeding device and it falls out of the carrier then he/she will receive a procedural regardless if they pick it up. This is also covered under page 39 Ammunition carrier notes: 1. A three second PE will be assessed anytime a loaded ammunition feeding device is dislodged and falls out of the carrier during a CoF. Dropping a loaded ammunition feeding device during a reload is not a procedural as long as the competitor does not leave ammunition behind.

You are correct in your understanding of the rules in this regard. I hope that this letter helps define the rules a little better for you and your fellow SOs and I will notate this for possible clarification in future issues if the rule book.

Robert Ray

IDPA HQ

Edited May 27, 2011 by Ty Hamby

[Steve Koski]

Ty,

The "does not leave ammo behind" language has been stricken, and replaced with "pick up and stow before last shot." See the addendum.

4. Ammunition Carrier Notes:

Modification of rule page 39

1. A three (3) second procedural penalty will be

assessed any time a loaded ammunition feeding device

(magazine, speedloader or full moon clip) is dislodged

and falls out of the carrier during a course of fire.

Dropping a loaded ammunition feeding device during a

reload is not a procedural as long as the competitor does

not leave ammunition behind retrieves and properly

stows the device before the last shot of the string is fired.

The prior sentence does not include devices dislodged

from a carrier which ALWAYS receives a PE.

Case 1: Was the magazine dislodged from the pouch? Sounds like it. Instant uncorrectable PE. It's kind of like dislodging the third mag when grabbing for the second. Instant PE.

You could argue that you didn't "dislodge" it from the pouch, but drew it normally then dropped it. OK, but then to avoid the PE you'd have to pick it up and stow it before firing your last shot.

Case 2: Easy call. You dropped a mag during a reload and didn't pick it up and stow it before your last shot. PE.

Koski

Edited May 27, 2011 by Steve Koski

[Ty Hamby]

Perfect. I will check addendum next time I go in search of a ruling. I got 95% of the book down. Its that last 5% that keeps me chasing the clarifications. Thanks.

Ty

[RickB]

Case one does not sound like "dislodged from pouch", if mag was intentionally drawn but subsequently dropped. PE for not picking it up, though. Case two is a variation on case one; mag dropped but not properly stowed; PE.

[RePete]

Case one does not sound like "dislodged from pouch", if mag was intentionally drawn but subsequently dropped. PE for not picking it up, though. Case two is a variation on case one; mag dropped but not properly stowed; PE.

+2.

The only time you can leave a mag with ammo in it, is when clearing a malfunction, and this was neither in both scenarios.

If, in either scenario, the mag was dislodged, then a 3rd PE could be assessed.