Loose Bullets

[DogmaDog]

Hi all,

I'm just starting my foray into rifle reloading. The first several dummy rounds I've loaded had problems with the bullets being loose in the casings--they can be pushed in to the top of the cannelure, and will spin when twisted by hand. When I seat them before the cannelure, the bullets will set back when I chamber them in a rifle. Increasing crimp seems to make the problem worse (the bullets get looser, not tighter!!! What's going on??

Here's the equipment I'm using:

Dillon 550

Dillon 3 die set

Wilson Case Gauge

Once-fired Remington brass

Hornady 55gr FMJBT w/c bullets

I cleaned the brass, full-length sized it with the dillon die, then trimmed with a Possum Hollow Kwik Case Trimmer to 1.750" (some cases are 1.751", and some are as short as 1.743"...don't know if that much variance is a problem or not). I chamferred inside and outside of case mouth with a chamferring tool chucked in a drill.

Prior to putting brass back in the press, I cleaned it again.

Dimensions:

The expander ball in my sizing die measures .224" I checked the de-capping stem, and it doesn't appear bent.

Sized case mouths are .245 or .246" OD, and .222" ID

Bullets are 0.224" just below the cannelure, 0.215-0.217" in the cannelure, and 0.223" just above the cannelure.

Rounds seated to just below the cannelure are 1.250" long, which is about the longest I want to go. OD of the neck on a loaded cartridge is about 0.247 or 0.248", which is the same as in some factory reloaded ammo I have.

Crimping isn't working intuitively...putting on more crimp seems to make the bullet even looser, and doesn't seem to reduce the diameter of the mouth of the case.

I'm at a loss to understand what's going on, or what I should do about it...any help you can give would be much appreciated!

Thanks,

DD

[Dog Doc]

I am definitely new at this but I have read alot about this as I was having similar problems. Sometimes too much crimp can cause the problem. Somebody else can give you more information as to why this happens.

Something you can try... Try to not crimp a few rounds and check for set back. This may help determine if its a problem with sizing or seating.

[RH45]

Even though I've never had any issues with Remington, rifle brass, its possible you have a bad batch of brass. Do you have access to any new, or once-fired Lapua, Winchester, or Lake City brass to try?

[DogmaDog]

I don't have any new brass, but I have once-fired from several manufacturers, including lake city. I'll try one or more of those.

Also, I talked to a guy today who suggested I might not be sizing the brass enough. I had my sizing die adjusted pretty much as directed in Dillon's instructions, with the die backed off one half turn from touching the shell plate. The case heads gauge between the two steps on the Wilson gauge. My friend suggested they need to be flush with the lower step. I don't understand how that would improve neck tension...could it?

DD

[D.Hayden]

If it's been full length resized... it should hold the bullet.

Crimping is really optional.

Take a case, Only resize it.. can you hand press the bullet into the case? If it's lose.. stop here..

Then see if the power drop is doing anything wrong

[Dog Doc]

If it's been full length resized... it should hold the bullet.

Crimping is really optional.

Take a case, Only resize it.. can you hand press the bullet into the case? If it's lose.. stop here..

Then see if the power drop is doing anything wrong

This was my point without explaining it well. If properly seated there should be not setback even before a crimp is placed. I know I didn't go into detail about the crimp but when I was starting with rifle loads I had read something on the forum that too much crimp would increase the risk of loose bullets. Something about this causing a "springing" effect on the brass leading to the case neck putting less tension on the bullet... or something like that. If you test the bullet before crimping you can rule out where your problem is occuring.

[Powder Finger]

Hi all,

I'm just starting my foray into rifle reloading. The first several dummy rounds I've loaded had problems with the bullets being loose in the casings--they can be pushed in to the top of the cannelure, and will spin when twisted by hand. When I seat them before the cannelure, the bullets will set back when I chamber them in a rifle. Increasing crimp seems to make the problem worse (the bullets get looser, not tighter!!! What's going on??

Here's the equipment I'm using:

Dillon 550

Dillon 3 die set

Wilson Case Gauge

Once-fired Remington brass

Hornady 55gr FMJBT w/c bullets

I cleaned the brass, full-length sized it with the dillon die, then trimmed with a Possum Hollow Kwik Case Trimmer to 1.750" (some cases are 1.751", and some are as short as 1.743"...don't know if that much variance is a problem or not). I chamferred inside and outside of case mouth with a chamferring tool chucked in a drill.

Prior to putting brass back in the press, I cleaned it again.

Dimensions:

The expander ball in my sizing die measures .224" I checked the de-capping stem, and it doesn't appear bent.

Sized case mouths are .245 or .246" OD, and .222" ID

Bullets are 0.224" just below the cannelure, 0.215-0.217" in the cannelure, and 0.223" just above the cannelure.

Rounds seated to just below the cannelure are 1.250" long, which is about the longest I want to go. OD of the neck on a loaded cartridge is about 0.247 or 0.248", which is the same as in some factory reloaded ammo I have.

Crimping isn't working intuitively...putting on more crimp seems to make the bullet even looser, and doesn't seem to reduce the diameter of the mouth of the case.

I'm at a loss to understand what's going on, or what I should do about it...any help you can give would be much appreciated!

Thanks,

DD

This seems big. what happens if you get rid of the ball and load at your sized .222 ID?

crimping will never make up for a case with incorrect sizes.

In a gas gun you want probably .003-.004 bullet grip. measure od of neck then seat bullet re mesure od and the difference is the bullet grip you have.

With your measurements you only have .001 but you also have that variance in the measurements (.245 or .246)

so you may have some with .000 grip and these will move fer sure.

Edited March 28, 2011 by Powder Finger

[DogmaDog]

OK, I had a chance to do some more experimenting today, and I think I've made some headway:

My friend at the range was right! Size more. I was sizing brass the minimum amount, so the base would be flush with the upper step on a case gauge. I tightened my sizing die so I'm now lightly to moderately over-camming, and sizing the brass flush with the lower step of the gauge (shoulder set 0.004" further back). The neck ID now measures 0.221. I'm not sure why it's smaller.

Just for giggles, I tried sizing without the decap/expander ball in place, and the neck ID came out 0.214", which I'm thinking is smaller than we want (or else why would there be such a thing as an expander ball?)

I made a few dummy rounds, and the bullets seated tightly. With no crimp, I got 0.003" setback when chambering in a rifle. With crimp die adjusted per Dillon instructions (1 full turn past touching the round), I couldn't move the handle on the press all the way, so I backed it off to about 1/2 turn, and got 0.005" setback.

With just a very slight crimp (about 1/6 of a turn past touching the round...one facet on the hex nut), I got no setback.

My test batch of brass is now re-sized, and in the cleaner. Hopefully I'll be working up some loads tonight!

DD

[Aaron M]

sounds like you figured it out. when you are sizing what I would do is put the arm of your press down so the shell is fully extended up and then screw your sizing die down until it touches the shell plate and back it off 1/4 of a turn. your expander ball does seem pretty large. The reason you are getting a smaller diameter in the neck even after running it through a large expander ball could be spring back. Brass is very malleable and it springs back and expands as you fire and then size it. good luck!