jester Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 In IDPA, the A-ring is pretty good size, which got me wondering. Since I'm still more use to going to the range and punching paper, in IDPA, what is considered above average accuracy? or is it only important to get 2 shots in that center ring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 Accuracy is a requirement of all shooting sports and is closely related to everything else you do during the course of fire, and your equipment. As a lower level you would want to use a pistol and load combination that is capapble of at least 3" at 25 yards. Much better would be about 2" at 25, and a good match quality pistol should be able to produce groups measuring about 1" at 25 yards. Ideally you as a shooter should be able to shoot as well as your gun. Most competition shooters can not, but that is the goal you should be working towards. Keep in mind that all of this is static shooting, in other words either freestyle and/or off of a bench. As your skill level grows you should be able to duplicate these groups from various positions, unsupported, strong hand/weak hand, and while moving at various distances. So in answer to your question, yes all you have to do is hit that great big "A" ring, but you need to be able to hit it on the run, shooting one handed, while carrying a briefcase full of rocks in the other hand. O'yeah, and do it faster then everyone else.................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester Posted June 11, 2002 Author Share Posted June 11, 2002 Always nice to set up goals to train towards...ie 1" groups @ 25 yards, strong & weak hand. Nice to be able to see improvement in something I'm dedicating so much time, effort & $$. As for speed...well, for right now, I'd rather be slow and accurate than slow & inaccurate! The speed w/ be there as accuracy increases (so I'm told ) (Edited by Jester at 9:26 pm on June 10, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 Since you will need a starting point from which to build your goals, it is a good idea to go to the range and benchrest your pistol and load to determine the base accuracy of your system. Then build a realistic goal based on those figures. If you take some of the IDPA course design requirements into consideration: - 75% of all shots required in a match must be 15 yards or less; however, occasional targets out to 35 yards are to be encouraged. - No ‘strong hand only’ strings of fire may require the shooter to engage targets more than 10 yards distant. - No ‘weak hand only’ strings of fire may require the shooter to engage targets more than 7 yards distant. - No head box shots are to be required more than 10 yards distant. The IDPA practical accuracy requirements with an 8" round A-zone and a 6" square head box are really not that difficult for most firearms to meet. The real test is can the shooter use their selected pistol and load to hit these zones from any position including the use of cover, any hand, and on the move with any hand. Maintaining a decent level of accuracy with movement or weak hand (or both!) tends to be a hurdle for most shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 in some ways it is wrong to say "accuracy is first speed will come" if you have forever then maybe it is true, but if you never TRY to go fast you never will.... yet in IDPA, it can be counter productive... adn i have gone fast enough to win with a point down to beat someone who shot it clean.... however you have to go MORE than .5 seconds faster, and i could have made the more accurate shot in that length of time.... I know of atleast 2 or 3 high classed ( one GM) who on the road to the top was blinding fast, and didn't develope his accuracy until later. the key is go as fast as you can hit. push the limit, if you don't continually push you will stagnate. i feel thinking about speed is very important... you say i can't shoot that fast.. well, i have looked at competitors, WALK through a shoot house, and i have seen that move Stop, move STOP, walking ( shooting on the move is the best way so do it that way) its just faster if you can do it in the Course. i have also seen "from P1 retrive gun from P2 and engage.. the competitor walks 10 yards to the gun... you aren't shooting RUN get the lead out speed up at the times your NOT shooting its all on the timer when your done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 One very important thing to keep in mind is that speed in IDPA and USPSA shooting involves a lot more then just pulling the trigger fast. If you divide up the time spent in the average stage your split times are one of the least important places to speed up. O'course this assumes that they are somewhat reasonable, say below .3's. Especially in the early part of your competition shooting training you should focus of picking up speed just about everywhere else. The speed of your draw and reloads are very important. Probably the most important however is your speed during movement. The average IDPA stage is about 60% movement, an average USPSA stage is probably closer to 80% movement. A 10% reduction in time during movement is going to amount to a lot more then a 10% reduction in split times. Especially if you are shooting at least 90% "A's". Keep in mind some people are naturally fast, some are naturally accurate. Use your practice time to work on what you are NOT good at, not just to reinforce what you already do well. One of my every first shooting instructors (J. Micheal Plaxco) told me that if you really enjoy practicing, you are probably practicing the wrong things. Spend that time developing the skills that need the most work. Ideally you want to balance your skills.....your draws from concealment should be around 1.25, reloads should be at or under 1.5 from concealment, splits between shots will varied based on target distance and size but you should be able to shot controlled splits on full sized, close in targets somewhere around .18-.20 and movement should be smooth and fast. If you can preform these skills on demand..........welcome to Master Class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 Jester: Bob is right about balancing your skill set. Accuracy is important, but you will be suprised how far you can go without being an exceptionally accurate shot. I just finished taking an IPSC competition class from a world class shooter and he had us shooting at one inch dots at 3-5 yards and at 1.5 inch dots at about 7 yards. I was suprised to see that out of 15 shooters only three or four of us could consistently hit the dots. One is a Master class IPSC shooter, one is a Master class PPC and Bullseye shooter, and the other a Master class PPC shooter. All of these shooters learned to shoot accurately before shooting IPSC. Our USPSA ratings are Master, A class, and B class. The most accurate shooter was the B class shooter. That's not to say that accuracy is not important because it is vital. Accurate shooting requires good visual skills and good trigger manipulation skills. Still, there are a lot of B class shooters who are hard pressed to shoot a 6 inch group on demand at 25 yards. There are also a lot of B class shooters who can shoot remarkably well at fifty yards when you throw the timer away. To answer your question, an above average IDPA shooter could probably hold a three inch circle at 25 yards on demand day in and day out slow fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 first off Excellent posts bob and ron. what is average, they say C is average in school system's 75% for some things is average, if we use 70-80% as an average that puts most shooters being Expert class high sharp shooter, or B/A class in uspsa. that given i would say that a 3" circle on demand is definitley above average, i am on the brink of master class, and i can almost do that. i have recently started shooting a few bullseye events ( pretty trophies ) and it is helping my accuracy a great deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGO Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 I can't reliably shoot 3" or better groups at 25 yards. Not from a standing position. My gun and I combination surely can not. Probably wether rested or not. Maybe 30,000- 40,000 rounds ago that one may have been accurate enough to allow me to shoot that well, but not now, or last year before I retired it. However, that gun and I can hit the head of the IDPA or IPSC target everytime at 25 yards so I don't think I really care if it is much more accurate than that. We all get a little to worried about how well the gun shoots instead of recognizing what the gun needs to do and then learning how to do that. If you can hit a 6" head at 15 yards you are probably above average. If you can hit that same target at 25 yards you are WAAAAAAY above average! If you can shoot 3" groups on demand, you are God level, or maybe even as good as Brian. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted June 15, 2002 Share Posted June 15, 2002 TGO. What you say is right on accuracy. You describe what you can do standing off hand, too many people describe what the pistol can do sandbagged, sitting down and not after running ten yards to a shooting box. My groups with my NRA stock gun are great at 50y prone but are 3-4 times larger standing at 25y, with the timer running. If I could shoot 1/2 as good as my gun I would be real happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 I think we are comparing apples to oranges. In an IPSC match with the timer running I would be delighted if I could maintain 10 inch groups at 20 yards throughout the course of the day. Of course, if a guy shot groups that size in BE or PPC ya might as well stay home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Those of you who want to shoot 2.75" groups at 25yds whilst playing IPSC games feel free.... ...meanwhile....some Master or aspiring B-class shooter is gonna whoop your butt by shooting a few C-zones hits in about 8 seconds less time. Super accurate shooter: 20.56 sec/115 points (5.593 HF) Fast, but acceptably accurate shooter: 15.23sec/98 points (6.434 HF). IDPA scoring may produce different results? (That's why IDPA isn't my cup'o tea ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 thats 23 shots. 20.56 0 down total is 20.56 15.23 -17 (x.5) 8.5 Total is 23.73 slow guy win's but at those times, that is pretty fast splits at 25 yards for IDPA. this is an excellent example of transitioning between the 2 sports... now if you shoot a production gun. accuracy becomes even more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Perez Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Don't know about average accuracy.What might be a 3-4 inch group now ,could reduce in size once you get more trigger time on the gun. The goal I think in IDPA is to get as many of your shots into the '0' ring faster than the other guy . If 2 shooters finish a stage in the same exact raw time, the one with the least points down will come ahead on top.The scoring system rewards both speed and accuracy. At any IDPA match ,any of the top shooters can win- it will boil down to who has the least points down overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Schwab Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 If 2 shooters finish a stage in the same exact raw time, the one with the least points down will come ahead on top.The scoring system rewards both speed and accuracy. At any IDPA match ,any of the top shooters can win- it will boil down to who has the least points down overall. Look at last years Nationals. Compare points down for Sevigny and Rob. I agree with what you're saying to a point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZ Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Quote: from smoney on 9:20 am on June 18, 2002 thats 23 shots. 20.56 0 down total is 20.56 15.23 -17 (x.5) 8.5 Total is 23.73 slow guy win's but at those times, that is pretty fast splits at 25 yards for IDPA. this is an excellent example of transitioning between the 2 sports... now if you shoot a production gun. accuracy becomes even more important. In IDPA, you can do the math and show that accuracy is more important then speed...you can also do the math in IPSC and show that speed is KING! In the immortal words of TGO...."why go slow?" Thats why I picked IPSC for my game...I'm with TDean on this one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now