S391 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) I'm curious if anyone uses a taper crimp die? I have been having issues with a few of my reloads not fitting in the chambers of my Smith 625 revolver and i'm curious if a taper crimp die would eliminate that issue. Edited January 17, 2011 by S391 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Not exactly sure what you mean- I always use a crimp die- either a taper crimp die or a roll crimp die. I personally use a roll crimp die on my revolver loads. Helps in a couple ways- one of which is feeding into the chambers better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmanfixit Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I really like the Lee factory crimp die. It provides a consistent "pull pressure" and there is a carbide sizing ring at the mouth of the die to insure that the completed round meets at least maximum tolerance for caliber. This crimp type also reduces the issues with case deformation that an overenthusiastic roll crimp die can produce if there are variations in case length and malleability. Taper crimp dies really don't provide the consistancy as there are variations on wall thickness of cases from head stamp to head stamp. With cartridges that headspace off the case mouth I think you get a more consistent function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deacon Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I really like the Lee factory crimp die. It provides a consistent "pull pressure" and there is a carbide sizing ring at the mouth of the die to insure that the completed round meets at least maximum tolerance for caliber. This crimp type also reduces the issues with case deformation that an overenthusiastic roll crimp die can produce if there are variations in case length and malleability. Taper crimp dies really don't provide the consistancy as there are variations on wall thickness of cases from head stamp to head stamp. With cartridges that headspace off the case mouth I think you get a more consistent function. Redmanfixit, do you use the Lee factory crimp die in a Dillon XL650 press? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S391 Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 I should have mentioned that I am using a Hornady 3 die set and I currently use their die that crimps and seats the bullet at the same time. The problem I'm having is that some of my reloads will not fit in the chamber of my 625... I thought perhaps a taper crimp die would offer a more consistent crimp / final product that an all in one seat / crimp die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocice Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I use a Redding taper crimp die as the last step on a LnL ap when loading 45acp, and crimp @ .469-470. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordonm1 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Seat and crimp in separate operations. This takes two dies on the progressive presses or on a single stage you can set your die to seat the bullet first and then run the rounds through the die again after resetting it for crimping. When seating I turn my seater die down to just touch a resized case and then back it out until you can still feel the flare on a flared case. Then lock the die down and adjust the seating depth. Seating and crimping at the same time can damage the bullet. Depending on how tight the crimp is set you may crimp the bullet in the case and continue to smash the bullet from the top as the case is pushed further into the die. More common is shaving the sides of a lead or moly coated bullet. Also, in theory for me only, if you seat and crimp in the same step you will be shrinking the outside diameter of the bullet over a longer length which can reduce the bullet's engagemnt into the barrel rifling and hurt accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deacon Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I should have mentioned that I am using a Hornady 3 die set and I currently use their die that crimps and seats the bullet at the same time. The problem I'm having is that some of my reloads will not fit in the chamber of my 625... I thought perhaps a taper crimp die would offer a more consistent crimp / final product that an all in one seat / crimp die. I have a kahr W45 that has been a big problem on reloads not fitting in the chamber. I can only use .451 dia bullet and I use the Lee FC die and set oal to 1.245 to 1.250 using 4.5gr IR 700X, zeor 230gr fmj bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S391 Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 I should have mentioned that I am using a Hornady 3 die set and I currently use their die that crimps and seats the bullet at the same time. The problem I'm having is that some of my reloads will not fit in the chamber of my 625... I thought perhaps a taper crimp die would offer a more consistent crimp / final product that an all in one seat / crimp die. I have a kahr W45 that has been a big problem on reloads not fitting in the chamber. I can only use .451 dia bullet and I use the Lee FC die and set oal to 1.245 to 1.250 using 4.5gr IR 700X, zeor 230gr fmj bullet. I'm getting 2 or 3 per hundred.... Since I just started loading .45 I'm pretty sure it is something in my set up but I'm not what is causing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge DeBoulet Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I was having a similar problem with the Hornady 3 die set; the seating/crimp die provides a roll crimp, not a taper crimp. I adjusted that die so that it only performed seating and installed a taper crimp die (also Hornady) and virtually all of my feeding issues disappeared. I had to remove my powder cop die to make everything happen on one pass through my LNL AP, but it's easy to see the powder level in the .45ACP cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S391 Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) I was having a similar problem with the Hornady 3 die set; the seating/crimp die provides a roll crimp, not a taper crimp. I adjusted that die so that it only performed seating and installed a taper crimp die (also Hornady) and virtually all of my feeding issues disappeared. I had to remove my powder cop die to make everything happen on one pass through my LNL AP, but it's easy to see the powder level in the .45ACP cases. I watched a video where a guy had his press set up where the powder drop also flares the case so he could keep his powder cop die plus us the taper crimp die.... I need to look into that. However, I noticed that I rarely look at my powder cop die so I'm not sure how much it really does other than to offer a false sense of security. Perhaps I would pay better attention if I didn't have the thing in my set up.... Edited January 18, 2011 by S391 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBF Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) Lee Factory Crimp Die ( AKA FCD ) Pretty much any round that is crimped in that die ( .469 - .470 at case mouth for 45 ACP ) will fall into a case gauge . The FCD Works slick for 40S&W too ... Travis F. Edited January 18, 2011 by TBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmanfixit Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I use it on a Dillon RL550! Not a 550B mind you! I was an early adopter and bought my Dillon progressive at least 25 years ago. It works great! ( the press AND the factory crimp die)!! Mr. Lee professes that the factory crimp die will yield more accurate, consistent reloads and I have found that to be so! At least if I can believe my Chrono and where the holes appear on the paper! I really like the Lee factory crimp die. It provides a consistent "pull pressure" and there is a carbide sizing ring at the mouth of the die to insure that the completed round meets at least maximum tolerance for caliber. This crimp type also reduces the issues with case deformation that an overenthusiastic roll crimp die can produce if there are variations in case length and malleability. Taper crimp dies really don't provide the consistancy as there are variations on wall thickness of cases from head stamp to head stamp. With cartridges that headspace off the case mouth I think you get a more consistent function. Redmanfixit, do you use the Lee factory crimp die in a Dillon XL650 press? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOT QUITE RIGHT Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Redding Taper Crimp Dies and seat and crimp seperately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal1950 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 The problem could also be your bullet/seating depth. If your loading wc or swc I've run into the issue of the edge of the bullet hitting on the lip of the chamber throat. Trying loading up a few dummy rounds at slightly different OAL to test. Sal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S391 Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 The problem could also be your bullet/seating depth. If your loading wc or swc I've run into the issue of the edge of the bullet hitting on the lip of the chamber throat. Trying loading up a few dummy rounds at slightly different OAL to test. Sal I'm running standard 230 gr rn bullets but I'll give this a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordonm1 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 If you are roll crimping bullets that do not have a crimp groove it is possible to overcrimp and create a bulge in the bullet that interferes with chambering. I have done this loading long oal's where the groove was not used. I'm not sure if a roll crimp is needed for 45ACP in a revolver. My understanding is the roll crimp is used for revovlers to prevent setback of unfired bullets into case during recoil. I can imagine this happening with .357 mag but not to sure with the low pressures of 45ACP. A firm taper crimp won't cause too much leading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noylj Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 If you are loading for a revolver, you want a roll crimp. I sincerely recommend that you separate bullet seating from roll crimping (I believe the same for taper crimping, but it is not quite as problematic as a roll crimp). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S391 Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 Thank you to everyone for the great info! I played around with my press last night and loaded some ammo with the taper crimp die but wasn't happy with the result. I reset everything and spent more time working with the crimp / seating die and I think that is where I went wrong. As Sal mentioned I think I had the bullet seating depth all wrong. I adjusted everything and the problem of rounds not fitting in the chamber seems to have gone away. I'll spend more time with it over the weekend and we'll see what happens but I wanted to thank everyone for their time and advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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