3 Gun NOOB.

[chefcs5]

lol Ok so I am not a shooting noob but I am a noob to 3 gun. I am seeing diffrent rules between USPSA and the other 3 gun groups. Including the variations in divisions. So I dont wanna end up in one of Jeese T's great funny vids so I promise I wont call it my 3 gun kit.lol. (or maybe I will)

Ill tell you what I have and what I can afford and you guys tell me the direction I should head so Ican shoot the most matches without switching up my gear etc for every diffrent type of 3 gun.

So for pistols

I can shoot

G17 (my idpa gun)

G34 (set up for uspsa prod.)

G24 (set up for uspsa limited)

Ruger gp 100 (dunno why I bought this I hate doing reloads in production let alone a revo.lol)

Ok shotguns I have

Benelli nova (12 ga.)

remington 870 (12 ga.)

remington 1100 semi auto(20ga.)

and various other sears hunting guns I dont wanna list for fear of being in a video..lol j/k

and AR

This is pretty open since all I have is a lower it is 223. I can get one for 308 if needed

Sine I am building this ar adding any other guns is out right now. I am not rich so dont go to crazy I can tell you open is prolly not where I wanna be.lol. Like I said with winter lay off and building the AR Id rather not buy a ton of eqip for the other guns I have either.

Now I dont wanna be cheap. Id liek to stay between 800-1200$ on the rest of my AR.

So what division should I be looking at

What other gear would I need for that division

what is the best options for my AR build

I am a B in production uspsa, C limited and Exp in Idpa

Ok guys help me out.

Help me build my "kit" Tischauser..lol

Thanks in advance

Edited January 1, 2011 by chefcs5

[MarkCO]

Do you want to shoot your rifle with Irons, red dot or optics?

Do you prefer USPSA production or Limited?

Are you left or right handed, and do you have good dexterity with your weak hand?

[chefcs5]

I prefer limited but dont mind production

I dont like dots but would like a scope if there is shots over 200 yds

I am right handed

I am ok with my left hand at up close shots(7 yds or so maybe 10 yds if standing still)

[mlmiller1]

If you put together your AR with quality parts & you are willing to take a little hit on the shotgun side of things, I would say to shoot your 870 pump like it is, your 34 in a NON race holster, & the new AR. If you put a magnified optic on the AR, that will put you in one division, if you put a non mag optic & or irons on the AR, that will put you in a different division. You could shoot your 20ga 1100 but you MIGHT be at a slight disadvantage over the 12 ga, just depending how good you are with it, plus most shell holders are not made for 20ga shells. That can be overcome of course, though.

Each match seems to have it's own rules so be sure to read your rules before you go. The pump won't hurt you too much, especially at first if you have some shotgun skills.

IMGA rules seem sort of prevelant overall or some variation thereof so if you figure where you would shoot in IMGA matches, you could probably apply that to most other rule sets. OH, I don't know about idpa 3 gun so you are on your own with that. Most of the rule sets are sort of a slippery change off another set. e.g., one match in limited irons won't let you use a coupled mag where the bottom of the mags are in line as a rest because they call it a bipod whereas another match will. Very strange but each MD has his own opinion about what is best.

The only real thing you could do to your AR that would throw you into open would be a big compensator & bipod. Most rule sets allow up to a 3" comp in limited or tactical or lim irons or tac optic or...... Over a 3", you go to open. Most do not allow a bipod unless you are in open, also.

The only other thing you might consider, but this would add $$$ quickly, would be to start over with your AR & get a 308, shoot the 870 pump, & buy a 45 pistol & maybe shoot heavy metal. This is another set of slippery rules & honestly there aren't too many folks shoot it. Pistol & rifle mag capacity is limited so reloads are increased. Other than that, no real reason for changing out your lower to a big one. Most 3 gun don't have major/minor scoring.

Everything I said has a "most" in front of it. I use that term because those are the matches I've been around. Your mileage may vary depending on where you live, etc.

Bring your stuff to a match & play, let them tell you which division you are in. Then worry about specifics as you learn what you enjoy & what you don't.

Good luck, be safe, have fun!

MLM

[chefcs5]

thanks. I think im going to try limited. and stick with the 870, the 34 and just shoot 223. If I decide I need to put a 1x4 or something on it later I can go to tactical. Im mainly going to be shooting at polo. il. ich uses the uspsa 3 gun rules to start and we will see where I go from there. I think the shotgun may be a strong protion for me as I used to shoot sporting clays with my 870.

Thanks for the info guys.

A few AR questions though. what barrel length should I be look at?

[mlmiller1]

I've been shooting a 20" ar because I like irons & have my front sight at the end of the barrel, but if I were going to use optics, I would drop back to an 18" gun. I feel a 16" is a bit of a handicap on long stuff & the 18" doesn't seem to be a problem on close stuff. My 20" hasn't really been bad at close stuff either but it is heavy so, thus my opinion.

On your shotty, after being able to hit targets, reloading is where you will make or break it in competition. Here is a video of some guys that are great shooters & were willing to give a demonstration of one really good way of reloading applicable to all shotgun shooting & shooters.

MLM

[MarkCO]

thanks. I think im going to try limited. and stick with the 870, the 34 and just shoot 223. If I decide I need to put a 1x4 or something on it later I can go to tactical. Im mainly going to be shooting at polo. il. ich uses the uspsa 3 gun rules to start and we will see where I go from there. I think the shotgun may be a strong protion for me as I used to shoot sporting clays with my 870.

Pistol: If you are going to primarily be shooting USPSA rules, go major. I shot a G35 major all last year in IMGA and USPSA matches and I don't think the 9mm gives you much, probably a wash if you shoot major a lot.

Shotgun: Sporting Clays can't hurt, but make or break in 3gun is reloading the shotty. The two pumps you have will be faster to load, with less hassle than the 20 guage 1100. The Nova has the larger loading port, which helps with speed.

AR: I'd go with an 18", gas, free float and a JP trigger. I would call JP and do the "Send in your Lower" program. You can ship it direct, and they send it back direct. They can get you everything you need on the lower. Even though there are a few unhappy folks, a DPMS 3G1 upper from Midway is a smokin deal: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=493749

I can't give you any recomendations on shooting Irons in 3G becasue I have not tried it yet.

[chefcs5]

great video and thanks for the info.

[AustinT]

Lots of folks prefer Novas over 870s because they're easier to load. What does your Nova and your 870 look like right now?

[chefcs5]

they are both just stock guns

[mlmiller1]

You know, those guys are probably right about the benelli nova maybe being a better choice than the 870, now that I think about it. If either one has a goose barrel or some other extremely long barrel, that might not be your best choice. 22" or 24" would probably be good choice. 26" is what I shoot, occasionally it is a bit tight in small areas. I would not want a 28" or longer. Benelli barrels are expensive!

MLM

[AustinT]

they are both just stock guns

There's lots of stock configurations.

Novas come standard with screw in chokes, right? What barrel length is it? Does it have a vent rib or something else?

[chefcs5]

26 in barrel in the nova and yes screw in chokes I have modified in right now also have improved cyl and full.

[Jesse Tischauser]

Too late! You are staring in the much anticipated how do I set up my shotgun for 3 gun cartoon! Lol:)

You're gonna want to shoot tac optics like rest of us or tac irons because you have an eotech/aimpoint laying around and dont want to drop $800-1000 on a good 1-4x scope/mount. HM is slow and expensive. Plus nobody can beat Pat Kelley and Barry Dueck anyways.

I'd move the magwell and two of your G24 ext base pads to your G34 and shoot it. Or you could give up the extra 3-4 rounds of capacity and shoot the G24. Not too big of deal either way as the pistol round count per stage doesn't usually require a reload.

I would sell Nova (unless it's a 24" barrel), 870, 1100, and any other shotguns you have. Don't "F" around with the cheaper shitguns. Get a new or used M1 or M2. Then do all or some of this to it. I just put this together for some local guys that just got into 3 gun.

The question of what do I need to do to my Benelli to get it ready for 3 gun comes up a lot! The most obvious answer is to send it to a good gun smith like Mike Cyrwus at Accurate Iron or Benny Hill at Triangle Shooting Sports with a blank check. But for those of you that are interested in what you are going to get here is the list of things I (meaning Kurt Miller and Mike Cyrwus) have done to my Benelli M1 & M2 to make them winners.

To customize the Benelli M1/2 for 3 gun you will want the following accessories. I will start from the muzzle and work my way to the butt stock.

Briley Extended Choke Tubes The M1 uses the CRIO Mobile choke system. The M2 uses the CRIO Plus choke system. The black choke tubes look blend nicely with your barrel and mag tube moreso than the stainless ones do. I run a Diffusion, Light Modified, and a on a rare occasion a Full choke. Light Modified is used about 98% of the time in 3 gun. If you only have the jack for one choke. Get the LM.

+5 or +6 Nordic Components Extended Magazine Tube. The +5 tube will allow you to run an 8+1 configuration in your Benelli. A lot of shooters like the +6 tube so that they can run 9+1 at matches that allow you to add more ammo after the buzzer. Since a lot of stages are setup with 9-10 rounds this allows you to add one more shell ASAP to the tube after the buzzer goes off and avoid that dreaded and slow slide lock reload.

Hi Viz Tri Comp Front Sight There are a bunch of options in shotgun front sights out there so this item is definitely a personal preference one. I will say that Hi Viz is a huge sponsor of 3 gun and other shooting sports so buying from them is supporting the sport. This model comes with green, red, and white light pipes. Each color comes with a small round, large round, and a triangular shape pipe.

Nordic Components Shotgun Tube Clamp This is not a must have option as the magazine extensions are pretty damn tough. That being said there are horror stories out there of people breaking mag extension tubes when grounding their gun in a barrel or banging them into a wall/port or just shooting with them unclamped so much that the horrific recoil impulse shakes them enough to induce a fatigue faliure in the threads. Personally, I don't run one unless I need to run a sling on my shotgun. It just adds more weight up fon the front of the gun. Slinging shotguns is not done at most matches but it is required at some. This is definately an item you can order at a later date when required by the match you plan to attend. You could also borrow your buddies as he will not be shooting at the same time that you are shooting. You should be aware that you can change the point of impact of your slugs significantly when you clamp one of these on your shotgun barrrel. So test your gun before the match the see if the POA and POI shift with the clamp attatched.

10-32 X 1/2" Dome Stud This screws into the Nordic Barrel Clamp. It allows you to attach your sling's sling swivel to the front end of your Benelli.

Viking Tactics Padded Sling The padded version is the way to go here.

QD Sling Swivel This goes on the barrel end of your VTAC sling and attaches to the 10-32 X 1/2" Dome Stud. Any old brand will do. You probably already have a set or five of these in the closet already.

10/22 Folding Rear Sight To aid in sight alignment when shooting slugs the 10/22 rear sight is very popular. I have a hole drilled into the back of my vent rib and it is painted white. I aligned the the white hole in the vent rib with the front fiber optic light pipe for windage alignment. Another good option I have seen here is to dovetail a XS Big Dot rear wedge style sight into the rear of the vent rib. This one is personal preference. The 10/22 is the most precise but the largest even though it folds down. The hole drilled into the rib is the least precise but does not obstruct your vision when not in use. The XS sight is a compromise between the 10/22 and the hole in the rib.

Stippled Forearm and Pistol Grip - The plastic used on the Benelli forearm and stock are kind of slick. I have tried grip tape but it always wears down and usually moves around too. Get a good sandpaper or scalloped stippling job done for sure.

Lifter Welded Up, Extended, and Tuned This is the one thing you cannot live without on your Benelli. The stock lifter will trap your thumb in the loading port when you least expect it. C-Rums is the only place that I know fo that welds/extends them. Accurate Iron is one f the few gunsmiths that know how to tune them to your gun.

Ported and Polished Loading Port The loading port is pretty tight from the factory. If you want to speed up your reloads both weak and strong handed you gotta open this baby up. It will also save your thumb from wear and tear during the hours and hours and hours of reloading practice.

Bolt Lightened and Modified This is a nice insurance policy that your gun will run lighter loads such as reduced recoil slugs and buckshot. You can also run some lighter bird shot loads for those hoser clay stages with the lightened bolt too. Plus the Accurate Iron bolt just looks badass! The other modifications allow you to be able to load the gun if the bolt is out of battery and you can load an extra round on the lifter (ghost load). Some M1's will allow you load a round on the lifter in the stock configuration.

Extended/Oversized Bolt Handle I like the Nordic Component standard handle. Nordic's new Big Fat handle is nice as well if you want more to grab onto.

Side Saddle If you plan to load with your strong hand you are going to have to run some rounds on the side of your gun. The Otto Products or 3 Gun Gear are both great.

Slide Lock 2 Round Caddy Running out of ammo is inevitable with a shotgun so why not plan for it? These caddies put the ammo right next to the loading port. I should mention that these caddies can interfere with some methods of racking the bolt which is why I do not use one currently.

Oversized Bolt Release These are almost a must have item. They provide a larger footprint to bump when you have to load from slide lock and get a round in the chamber quick. There is no searching just get close. The Dave's Metal Works and the Arredondo button are my favorites.

Oversized Safety Button This is only needed on the M1. The M2 comes with a large button from the factory.

Viking Tactics Sling Buttstock Adapter The VTAC sling requires you to attach the sling at the top rear of the buttstock. You can't use the hole that is molded into the bottom of the stock and effectively deploy the VTAC sling. If you want to go old school you can run a sling swivel through the factory loop but its not as fast because you can really only sling over your shoulder or back with that method.

Limbsaver Recoil Pad This is most often times used on the M1 models as they do not come with the Comfortech Stock.

I'll try to post some pictures of my guns tomorrow.

On the AR side if things, there are so many good options it's a lot about personal preference. Go shoot as many different competition guns as you can to see what you like. The must have items are a good trigger and barrel. I like JP trigger. Any match grade barrel that shoots 1 MOA will work. There is a nice CTR-02 and Noveske in the classifieds right now. Sell those old sears and roebuck home defense coach guns and getcga one.

Edited January 2, 2011 by jtischauser

[Jesse Tischauser]

Glad to hear that your getting into 3 gun! It's the stuff!!!

[chefcs5]

Crap well Im not gonna sell my 870 thats my deer/rabbit gun and my 1100 is my quail/phesant gun. I can sell my benelli since its never even been shot I can prolly get what I paid for it. lol. I have to start lookign into an m1/m2 thnaks for the info. I can slap another mag well on my 34 I have a cheaper plasctic one I can put on it for now that is easy to take on/off. I am guessing like a standard bladetech style holster is ok for tac division.

[chefcs5]

so Jesse if I get the Nordic tube clamp Do I need the one with the rail so I can add all my sweet accessories? like my flashlight and my dot and night vision..lol.. just kidding by the way

[mlmiller1]

Chris,

Remember, everyone's posts including mine are just opinions. Many folks have plenty of fun with their 870, a 34, & a basic reliable AR. Lots of these opinions are after you get some experience & find out you enjoy 3 gun. If it doesn't fit you or you don't enjoy the game, don't get stuck with a bunch of expensive changes to your guns. Get your AR put together & buy a bag for your belt to carry some shotgun shells in & head to a match. Work out the rest later.

MLM

[Jesse Tischauser]

Crap well Im not gonna sell my 870 thats my deer/rabbit gun and my 1100 is my quail/phesant gun. I can sell my benelli since its never even been shot I can prolly get what I paid for it. lol. I have to start lookign into an m1/m2 thnaks for the info. I can slap another mag well on my 34 I have a cheaper plasctic one I can put on it for now that is easy to take on/off. I am guessing like a standard bladetech style holster is ok for tac division.

Once you get good with that M2 you will be using it for all that other hunting stuff. I love how light weight that Benelli is to carry compared to the others. Plus a tactical mall Ninja Operator will look good in the field with the tactical M2;). I get funny looks when I do a tactical reload from my MME caddies on the sporting clays range.

I originally bought the clamp with the Rail and have it in a bag in the closet. I wish I would have known better and saved a few bucks.

Edited January 2, 2011 by jtischauser

[Jesse Tischauser]

Chris,

Remember, everyone's posts including mine are just opinions. Many folks have plenty of fun with their 870, a 34, & a basic reliable AR. Lots of these opinions are after you get some experience & find out you enjoy 3 gun. If it doesn't fit you or you don't enjoy the game, don't get stuck with a bunch of expensive changes to your guns. Get your AR put together & buy a bag for your belt to carry some shotgun shells in & head to a match. Work out the rest later.

MLM

...but your kit won't be legit without them all. Lol!

Mark is right which is why I tried to breakdown the parts I suggest by must have items and others that are more luxury things like stippling and recoil pads and big safety buttons. Personally I like to have everything and anything plus anything that could make me faster plus everything that looks cool or badass on my guns;)

[chefcs5]

Well I better get the m2 and my ar tricked out. so I can start my online sniper training. lol.. no I plan on shooting my first match with the 34, my 870 and a pretty much basic ar I will get all the goodies from then on. depending on how deep i get into the sport. Thanks for all the info and its good stuff from all of you. this is a good thread I believe for guys comming out who do have some decent equipment then they canknow where they will stand when they get out there. good info guys!

[MarkCO]

Chris, yes, Mark is correct, all just opinions, and I am pretty sure that there are 4 or 5 things all the tops guys agree on, just have not had the 8 hour to lock them all in a room and figure out what it is.

I ran my whole first season with a Glock 22, and 870 Pump and Marlin Camp 9. Had a blast!

As for picking/selling guns, if it has sat in your safe for 6 months, and you don't feelk any pain at the thought of selling, probably okay. But my list of "sold" guns would have outfitted 2 people pretty well for 3 gun.

BEFORE you go buy a Benelli, you do owe it to yourself to talk to some of the accomplished shooters running Benelli's, Remingtons, FNs, Mosburgs, etc. Consider what companies support our sport, loading techniques, final price tag, maintainance, what modifications are necessary, etc. I refused to run a Benelli for years for a variety of reasons and ran Remingtons (1100s mostly). I did just recently switch platforms, but it took 2 years of contemplation, shooting every gun I ever saw on a 3 gun stage and asking a LOT of questions. I am not a shotgun "guy" as most who know me will attest to, however, 2011 will be different...practice loading, a new platform, more confidence.

[mlmiller1]

I think Mossberg is working on a competitive model out of the box that would be much more affordable than the average stock benelli (before mods which =$$$) so you might shoot your 870 a while & keep an eye out for that mossy.

Whatever you have, take it to a match, try out the game, have fun. Then worry about all that other stuff.

MLM

[Jesse Tischauser]

I think Mossberg is working on a competitive model out of the box that would be much more affordable than the average stock benelli (before mods which =$$$) so you might shoot your 870 a while & keep an eye out for that mossy.

Whatever you have, take it to a match, try out the game, have fun. Then worry about all that other stuff.

MLM

I welcome Mossberg to the 3 gun table with open arms! If you buy a Benelli now and don't like it after shooting the highly anticipated Mossberg when and if it is built I will buy your Benelli for what you got in it no questions asked. I shot my first full year of 3 gun last year and my Accurate Iron (and KurtM) tuned M2 was the only gun that didn't give me trouble and I shoot a JP CTR-02 and a Glock 34. I hate that Benelli doesn't support us but those shotguns are the shistuff.

[EkuJustice]

For optics on a budget, the weaver 1x3 is hard to beat. I would try the shotguns before you buy one to see what works best for you. I personally would take the 1100 over the benelli any day at much less cost. I actually prefer the weight of the 1100 to the benelli as well as the recoil being soaked up more with the 1100. Did come from a skeet background so use to shooting a 12pound shotgun so the 1100 dosent feel heavy at all to me. Runs 1oz loads all day without having to have the bolt lightened.