9 Major magazine solution

[olp73]

The other day I talked to a guy that I consider a very reliable source for tips and tricks.He told me that he has solved his magazine problems by sizing his 9 brass in a38 super die before it goes into a regular 9 sizing die.

As we allknow the 9mm Para is a cone cartridge and the makes it more difficult to makethe cartridges stack nicely on top of each other and it also makes the it more tendto nose dive.

I thoughtthis was quite radical, but maybe it isn't. I would really like to hear youropinion on the matter. It might help a lot of people. I especially know thatthe Tanfoglio crowd has problems with this.

The guy shootsan SPS open gun and magazines without spacers.

Edited July 11, 2010 by olp73

[slickmix]

never heard of this before. Does mean that is not going to work but you still have the rim to worry about. To my understanding this is where you have a stacking problem

[olp73]

never heard of this before. Does mean that is not going to work but you still have the rim to worry about. To my understanding this is where you have a stacking problem

In this regard the .38 Super should be a bigger problem!! It is even semi-rimed!

[eric nielsen]

Comparing what the two different dies do to a piece of brass -

- the 9x19 die will squeeze tighter at the mouth and provide more bullet pull; it will size less near the rim, leaving more bulge there. the 9x19-sized case will be relatively more cone-shaped.

- the Super die will squeeze less at the mouth and provide less bullet pull; it sizes tighter at the rim, leaving less bulge there. the Super- sized case will be relatively more cylinder-shaped.

in general, using 9x19 dies on Super cases is a bad idea because it over-works the case & leads to cracks just behind the base of the bullet.

you're wanting to try the opposite - Super die on a 9x19 case. i suppose the risks would be not getting enough bullet pull and allowing bullet set-back as the cartridge feeds into the chamber. you could test that by making a bunch of dummy rounds, measuring their OAL, then racking them in&out of your chamber several times then re-measure OAL.

[olp73]

you're wanting to try the opposite - Super die on a 9x19 case. i suppose the risks would be not getting enough bullet pull and allowing bullet set-back as the cartridge feeds into the chamber. you could test that by making a bunch of dummy rounds, measuring their OAL, then racking them in&out of your chamber several times then re-measure OAL.

No, I'm suggesting using both. first the super then the 9 sizing die.

[G-ManBart]

At the extractor groove, Super is right around .380" and 9 is around .390". I can only imagine that folks running 9 into a Super resizing die aren't resizing it all the way to the extractor groove.

Edit to add, I don't think it's the fact that 9 is tapered that causes nose dives, it's that the case simply has farther to move before it hits the feed ramp. The farther that is, the more opportunity for the nose to drop. Use spacers or SV mag tubes and it shouldn't be a problem. My 9 Major gun even runs factory OAL out of stock STI tubes without spacers.

Edited July 14, 2010 by G-ManBart

[jmark308]

At the extractor groove, Super is right around .380" and 9 is around .390". I can only imagine that folks running 9 into a Super resizing die aren't resizing it all the way to the extractor groove.

Edit to add, I don't think it's the fact that 9 is tapered that causes nose dives, it's that the case simply has farther to move before it hits the feed ramp. The farther that is, the more opportunity for the nose to drop. Use spacers or SV mag tubes and it shouldn't be a problem. My 9 Major gun even runs factory OAL out of stock STI tubes without spacers.

Could you give us (Tanfoglio shooters) a few more details? Is this a Tanfoglio you are shooting? If so, is small frame or large frame? If so, which SV or STI tubes are you using? If not a Tanfo, I guess I will just wait around until the the magazines with spacers in the back become available from Henning.

[smokshwn]

you're solving a problem that doesn't necessarily exist.

My SVI mags run everything from factory length to long loaded 9mm (1.20) equally well. No spacers, no double sizing process, no brass sorting, etc etc.

That doesn't take into account all the stock (glocks, xds, sigs, smith's, etc.) 9mm guns out there that run it like sewing machines as well. If you are thinking that the case shape is the problem with your gun, I would bet money there are better and more reliable fixes that would solve whatever actual problems may be present themselves other than the cartridge.

[G-ManBart]

At the extractor groove, Super is right around .380" and 9 is around .390". I can only imagine that folks running 9 into a Super resizing die aren't resizing it all the way to the extractor groove.

Edit to add, I don't think it's the fact that 9 is tapered that causes nose dives, it's that the case simply has farther to move before it hits the feed ramp. The farther that is, the more opportunity for the nose to drop. Use spacers or SV mag tubes and it shouldn't be a problem. My 9 Major gun even runs factory OAL out of stock STI tubes without spacers.

Could you give us (Tanfoglio shooters) a few more details? Is this a Tanfoglio you are shooting? If so, is small frame or large frame? If so, which SV or STI tubes are you using? If not a Tanfo, I guess I will just wait around until the the magazines with spacers in the back become available from Henning.

The 9 Major gun I was talking about running without spacers is an STI...only mentioned that since he mentioned the guy who started this concept (9 through a Super die) was using an SPS gun. R,

Edited July 14, 2010 by G-ManBart

[Balle]

I shoot with a 9mm Large Frame Tanfoglio an use a 38 Super Die,

that works mutch better than the 9mm die.

[Guy Neill]

Unless you are pushing the 9mm case completely through the 38 Super die, you are leaving an area at the base untouched - meaning you are effectively making an even more tapered case - actually more of a stepped case instead of a taper.

If you do push the 9mm case all the way through the 38 Super die, you are severely working the area of the brass that needs to contain the pressure. If then firing it in a 9mm chamber, you are expanding the case back to 9mm dimensions - further working the brass. I suppose if you are only using the cases once it may make it through the process, but repeated use seems to be asking for a case failure.

If they are completely sized (to include the rim) and then fired in a 38 Super chamber, the expansion at the base of the case would be better supported, though the initial sizing is still work hardening the case.

Guy

[mikeAZ]

Just use the Lee "u" die in the 1st stage (it's under-sizsed). Get it from EGW(less than $30 shipped)or directley from Lee...... Best thing since sliced bread!!! I shoot LOT's and Lot's of 9mm.

[MatsN]

Just use the Lee "u" die in the 1st stage (it's under-sizsed). Get it from EGW(less than $30 shipped)or directley from Lee...... Best thing since sliced bread!!! I shoot LOT's and Lot's of 9mm.

Is that the solution to get the rounds not to take a nose dive?

[MichaelGj]

There are some few things you can do to your mags to insure that they are running 100% :

• Polish the mags inside and outside...
• Make sure that the feed lips are up to specs.
• Change the your magazine guts to either Grams or Taran Butler.

This should take care of most magazine faults.

You can also try make bent the 2nd or 3rd coil after the follower to a steeper angle upward.

Regards

Michael

[MatsN]

I´ll try that and see what happens. Where can i get those parts?

[MatsN]

By the way, what do you mean with that? I measured the feedlips and it reads the same as the original. What to look for?

• Make sure that the feed lips are up to specs.

[MichaelGj]

By the way, what do you mean with that? I measured the feedlips and it reads the same as the original. What to look for?

• Make sure that the feed lips are up to specs.

To wide feed lips can cause stove pipes.

Feed lips on all of my magazines measures .355 in the front and .360 in the back..

Dave Dawson has an excelent kit for this ( http://www.dawsonprecision.com/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=80000B60-1388518125 ) but a

small brass hammer or wise will do the trick as well.

You can get Grams parts here : http://www.gramsengineering.com

And Taran Butler here : http://tarantacticalinnovations.com

Both of them requires the use of spacers for 9mm.

Michael.