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[Merlin Orr]

I have given up with trying to get revolver friendly stages.

I just shoot - my friends laugh ..... and I laugh with them....

[Forrest Halley]

Not trying to turn this into a revolver thread but I don't fully agree with the above. The reason there are 5 divisions is so a ssr revolver doesn't compete against a esp 2011 9mm. Having said that I do agree that I have shot many stages that were not even close to revolver friendly and I try to take revolvers into consideration when I set up my stages. Things like the set up talked about in this stage is pretty obvious. However some revolver shooters complain when everything is not broken into 6 shot array's, so I think the entire revolver species get labeled as "the boy that Cried wolf"

Give us a twelve shot stage and we'll show you an STI that comes in second! Some of us are delusional and believe in trying to be good overall still. Seriously I am only falling to Master class auto shooters in the 12 shot stages and I'm just a high SS. We round guns can dust 'em just as good as anybody else.

I am not saying that all of the stages should be broken into 6's I do in fact enjoy the challenge of the stages. This is why I DO SHOOT IDPA. I am saying that when you tell me too bad because I am shooting a revolver it's foul. Shoot what you wish, but don't send us to the end of the earth just because you're a ten plus one thinker. I don't complain when there are three threats and a steel, but if I have to run to cover to reload, don't make me break out the hail mary shots to re-engage. I also like shooting on the move so this run to the battlements and snipe is no fun if nobody else has to do it.

[Jadeslade]

THere is no IDPA near me, so I don't shoot it. I have shot classifiers. Can you not put a bullet in each target at least and then reload and finish?

[Forrest Halley]

THere is no IDPA near me, so I don't shoot it. I have shot classifiers. Can you not put a bullet in each target at least and then reload and finish?

With the original COF discussed it would have made an almost 20 yd head shot to single up on each. Remember IDPA limits to a 10 yard head shot. Also you can not take the head shot first in a failure drill as it is a procedural and if by the grace of glory you make a head shot you have to shoot it again in order to achieve the required head shot. Taking three headshots on a 2+1 target to avoid the sight transition in my eyes is an FTDR because it breaks the spirit of the stage.

A side note to all: This has gotten me reacquainted with the rules and principles of IDPA. It has not cured the gamer in me, but thanks anyway.

[Jadeslade]

Ok-I'm gonna have to read the book again. Thanks.

[kct45acp]

Not enough match directors shoot revolvers to understand the unique challenges the guns offer.

I would challenge any IDPA match director to shoot a revolver for 6 months(including at least one sanctioned match) to help increase there understanding of the round gun.

Some of them might find they enjoy it.

Wayne Ritchie

IDPA Area Coordinator

Arkansas, Oklahoma, and Louisiana

Not trying to turn this into a revolver thread but I don't fully agree with the above. The reason there are 5 divisions is so a ssr revolver doesn't compete against a esp 2011 9mm. Having said that I do agree that I have shot many stages that were not even close to revolver friendly and I try to take revolvers into consideration when I set up my stages. Things like the set up talked about in this stage is pretty obvious. However some revolver shooters complain when everything is not broken into 6 shot array's, so I think the entire revolver species get labeled as "the boy that dried wolf"

Strick

Not trying to turn this into a revolver thread either. My statement was meant for the MDs of our sport to walk a mile in a wheelgunners shoes to better understand course design. I also don't want the world in multiples of 6 either, just make sure the course design has the elements in it to allow me to complete it according to the rules.

All the discussion in this thread is geared toward that.

One of us pointed out that all Divisions would have to take a head shot at distances greater than the rule book allows to finish the stage.

In the end there will always be stages that suit one division over another(even if only slightly) and we do the best we can with what we are given.

[Cherryriver]

I hesitate to comment without seeing the actual stage, but I would offer a little different perspective.

First of all, I put on IDPA matches at my home club, and I virtually always shoot IDPA with a speedloader-fed sixgun.

And I design stages, lots of them, and yes, my stages are more six-shot neutral than those of my esteemed colleague at the next club north, who's a better program director than anyone else I've seen.

He's a CDP guy with almost no sixgun time and several years ago when we met, he readily admitted that he didn't give any consideration to six-shot neutrality, because there weren't any sixguns (until I unlimbered the Model 19 I was using at that time).

Over the years, though, with lots of revolvers starting to show up- his matches tend to draw 20-25% revos, now, he's tuned into the six-shot rule and gets along fine with it.

It can happen.

So, while this isn't a revolver thread, it does hit on the problem of going dry in the open. There might be a split between what you'd do in real life and what makes the most sense within the game.

I would say one of IDPA's specific intentions when it comes to "tactics" is to never run dry in the open. Good.

It also works to force avoiding running dry, such as with the reloads with retention. The rule book is saying, don't get in that spot.

So running dry would be frowned upon. But it happens, and when it happens in the open, my tendency is to say: reload RIGHT NOW because you're empty.

One step away from cover, common sense says get to cover. But the run-dry-in-the-open stages I've been confronted with usually leave you further than that, if you're a revo shooter.

The reality is that at nearly every IDPA match I've seen this issue, the SOs and MD say: Stop and reload in the open, if you want. I'm not sure I'm thrilled with that as "tactics" but for the game, it's all good and I've been known to take advantage of the ruling.

Still, if it were up to me, I'd say: reload RIGHT NOW when you're empty. That's how I interpret the spirit of the rules.

But, as we all know, in real life, you'd be sprinting towards cover like a maniac and only giving passing thought to getting zeros on any opponent more than a few feet away. No one would ever retreat shuffling slowly while taking fine aim and getting perfect hits.

That's one of those spots where IDPA's intentions (superior accuracy) conflict with the possibilities of actual stage designs (desire for shooting on the move) and real life (run away!!).

My final determination at the matches I MD: reload RIGHT NOW.

Edited to add: I also run the USPSA program at the home club... lots of stage designing! For my take on the differences, let me bore you with a blog post at:

http://therangeofficersblog.blogspot.com/2010/04/uspsa-or-idpa.html

Sleep tight.

Edited April 30, 2010 by Cherryriver

[Forrest Halley]

Cherryriver forgive me for not including your post in my reply. I think you make great points about the need for reloading in the open if you run dry. The SO's will soon become accustomed to you and know whether or not you are making an honest effort at the COF or making a travesty of it.

I would ask posters to please refrain from the use of "in real life" as it has been suggested by the powers that be to be basher language and seems to get threads locked out.

I choose instead to contrast the requirements of the rules with the founding principles of IDPA and sound field expedient tactics. I have no problem with a moving in the open reload, but I find kneeling or stopping to be unsound as you become more vulnerable. I agree with the "on the ground ruling" of reload where run dry, but as it is not supported by the rulebook, where I shoot all caution you on it and some actually call the PE. I have always disagreed with this practice and rule as it holds the revolver in the eyes of many to be archaic and an antiquated design. It is just like the other designs requiring a bit of adaptation to gain speed and accuracy.

[ben b.]

This popped up at our last match, on a skill stage which required lateral movement between cover points, with 2 steel and 2 paper targets. Our 2 revo guys had misses on steel, and each popped the cylinder open as moving to cover. I called a PE on each for initiating a reload away from cover, but I did not like doing so.

[Steve Koski]

Running away quickly and reloading behind cover is not necessarily a terrible idea.

[ben b.]

I agree, running empty and then hauling ass to cover sounds like a nice tactic to me.

I've made & run stages where the intent was to reach empty/slidelock while on the move, and to do the "Emergency reload" while continuing to move to cover. The COF descrips for these stages state that one should perform emergency reload on the move to cover if necessary.

I've also made & run "download to six" stages that went empty/slidelock as going to cover, and the intent was to shoot on the move and get to cover fast, reload, then reengage. Normal relaod PEs applied here.

[MemphisMechanic]

Running away quickly and reloading behind cover is not necessarily a terrible idea.

However, if the bad guy is five yards away, and you're thirty yards from the nearest cover, you might want to think about trying to make the gun work again kinda soon.

We all know the real reason IDPA requires you to load behind cover. Because if it doesn't, gamers such as myself would ALWAYS shoot to slide-lock on the move for a lower overall time. I'd try like hell to avoid going dry behind a wall, when I could be running to the next position during the same reload. Accept it as an unrealisitic rule, and go shoot the match the way the rulebook says.