Lookout...Newbie Reloader

[Matrix68]

This is my first "real" post...so, BE gentile

OK...here's my story...

Just picked up a used Dillion SDB (really good price couldn't pass it up). I have it mounted and everything seems to work, except the "low" primer indicator...and the fact it's missing a few screws here and there (will be calling Dillion soon).

I have read, re-read, and printed several of the topics from the BE forum (I am a little compulsive that way)...already started a few spreadsheets capturing relevant data that I have scoured from the BE forum, the reloading manuals I purchased, powder manufacturers websites, etc.

With that said...I just want to "check" my numbers, as I would like to keep the house from going up in flames and I would prefer to keep all my "digits" when shooting.

Here's what I have and my related questions (gut check)...

= Application - shooting USPSA Production, need to obtain required PF

= Firearm - Glock 17

= Powder - Universal Clays (I am thinking 4.5gr to begin with..is that appropriate?)

= Bullet - Berry's 124gr RN on hand

- Considering also BBI 130gr and/or MG 124 FMJ...will I have to modify my powder type/weight?

= Primer - CCI Small Pistol on hand, considering purchasing a large quantity of Wolf Small Pistol

= OAL - 1.135 (I have seen such a wide range that folks are using...is this appropriate?)

I appreciate any guidance that the collective knowledge of the forum can provide

Thanks...Christopher

[Collateral]

I compete with a Glock 17 as well and have been working up minor loads for a while. I tried Universal Clays after a recommendation from a friend. He was having great results with a longer barreled 9mm. I tried in vain to find an accurate combination with a 115 FMJ 9mm in the shorter Glock 17. You may have better luck with the heavier bullets that you mention, but if you don't see the accuracy you expect Universal Clays you may want to try a different powder. I have had great results with N320 and Titegroup with the 17. You may see tighter groups with jacketed over plated, but the 124grn is a solid choice. Buy a few good reloading manuals, a chrono and have fun with the hobby.

[G-ManBart]

Hey, I can't help but be gentile...I'm Catholic

Well, the fact that your starting load is .2gr higher than the max that Hodgdon recommends might give me some reason to worry

Berry's (any plated bullet) acts like a lead bullet as far as pressures and powder charges go. So, switching to the 130gr BBI wouldn't be much of a difference (6gr of bullet weight isn't going to make it go from reasonable to hurting anything) and you can probably stick with whatever works with the 124gr plated. Changing to the MG124 will force you to make changes...by lowering the powder charge because jacketed raises pressures when compared to lead/plated if they're both using the same amount of case volume.

Universal is a bit on the slow side for making a soft, mild Minor load. Lots of folks like Titegroup and I've had good luck with both N320 and Solo 1000 for Minor loads (all I load in 9). The 124gr bullet weight is sort of a compromise weight. Some people feel the 115s are too snappy and others think the 147s are too sluggish. Personally, I like the soft feeling of the 147s, and keep the PF up high enough (135+) that the gun doesn't feel sluggish at all.

[Matrix68]

Thanks for the insight.

It looks like I might need to pick up some Solo 1000 or N320...both seem to get positive reviews.

GMan...I did take notice to your callout of my powder weight being .2 grains higher than the recommended. This is exactly some of the challenges I am running into. I have a couple of reloading manuals and information that I have downloaded from the Manufacturer's website...and I am finding a varied range of recommended powder weight. How the heck do you find the "right" one? (rhetoric question of course)

I will certainly re-check my numbers.

Again...thanks for the guidance...I am just so concerned of doing something wrong that will lead to undesirable consequences (if you know what I mean).

[G-ManBart]

GMan...I did take notice to your callout of my powder weight being .2 grains higher than the recommended. This is exactly some of the challenges I am running into. I have a couple of reloading manuals and information that I have downloaded from the Manufacturer's website...and I am finding a varied range of recommended powder weight. How the heck do you find the "right" one? (rhetoric question of course)

I will certainly re-check my numbers.

Again...thanks for the guidance...I am just so concerned of doing something wrong that will lead to undesirable consequences (if you know what I mean).

Yeah, unfortunately it's pretty common, and probably the nature of the beast, that the manuals don't always agree. I tend to default to giving the powder manufacturer's data a bit more credibility, just because they should have the most experience with that particular powder.

Still, it doesn't always make much sense because not all of them publish the actual pressure (in PSI or C.U.P.) to make better comparisons. If one company lists 4.5gr as max, but it's only 32,000PSI it's not really a max load...but you need to be able to see the actual pressure they got to get an idea of that. Sierra lists a max of 5.3gr with a 125gr FMJ and Hodgdon themselves list 4.9gr with a 125FMJ...both of which should generate more pressure than the lead bullet loads they show maxed at lower charge weights. Speer lists 5.0gr with a 125gr FMJ, but only 4.3gr with a 125gr LRN. Sometimes with lead I think they're listing a charge weight that will help minimize leading (lower velocity), rather than really being a true max pressure, but they don't tell you that.

9mm can be slightly tricky because it's got a fairly small case volume so it doesn't take as much change in charge weight or OAL (really case volume used) to have it show up in velocity and pressure differences. Just one more thing to keep in mind.

A very handy resource is the Loadbooks.com One Book/One Caliber booklet that has most of the bullet and powder manufacturers listed....lets you quickly compare data without spending for all of the individual manuals.

Hopefully all of that doesn't make it even more confusing! R,

[Matrix68]

Thanks, GMan...that actually really helps.

I coming to terms with the fact that this "hobby" is a blend of art and science....LOL

[CocoBolo]

If you can't get N320 or TiteGroup, Winchester WST works well in 9 mm, 40, 45. I use 125gr Zero's with 4.7-4.8gr of WST set at 1.135. Not sure that will fit a glock but it should. On the TiteGroup side of the house its 4.2-4.3gr with the 125 again at 1.135. Both of these loads produce a pf of about 130 at 90 and are reverse temp sensative and will go up as the temp goes down. I load just a tick short so that they fit the CZ75. If I recall correctly factory ammo is set at 1.140, I have not had any in a few years to measure.

I've never shot a 147, I really like the feel of the 125 with a good powder. If it ain't broke don't fix it. For a beginner the Jacketed bullet is darn near idiot proof, but Moly, Cast Lead, and Plated take a little more care to load especially the crimp, and in the belling of the case mouth. If you have been shooting cheap ammo, and almost everyone that doesn't load does, you know that serbian stuff, Wolf etc, you are going to be very happy with your reloads. Be sure to drop check every round and if it don't drop don't use it in a match!

I can't say my loads are sub MOA at a 1000 yards but I hit A's with them consistently.

[Matrix68]

CB...thanks for the info.

To be honest...I did pick up on the "jacketed vs lead" callout you made. I might just go with jacketed to begin with and until I can get some "press/lever" time under my belt.

Again...thanks!

[GrumpyOne]

Alliant Power Pistol powder is a good, 40 and 9mm powder. Fairly cheap too. Really hard to double charge a case.

[gfmun]

I use 3.8 grns of Clays with a 124 grn MG FMJ ---very soft and nice....works in a G34 just fine.

George

[earlbob]

Still, it doesn't always make much sense because not all of them publish the actual pressure (in PSI or C.U.P.) to make better comparisons. If one company lists 4.5gr as max, but it's only 32,000PSI it's not really a max load...but you need to be able to see the actual pressure they got to get an idea of that. Sierra lists a max of 5.3gr with a 125gr FMJ and Hodgdon themselves list 4.9gr with a 125FMJ...both of which should generate more pressure than the lead bullet loads they show maxed at lower charge weights. Speer lists 5.0gr with a 125gr FMJ, but only 4.3gr with a 125gr LRN. Sometimes with lead I think they're listing a charge weight that will help minimize leading (lower velocity), rather than really being a true max pressure, but they don't tell you that.

In wonder if the reason we see some powders charge weights listed as max yet they have PSI or CUP listings that are below industry standards for that particular round may be because larger powder weights resulted in pressure spikes occurring. It would seem that they would want their powder to appeal to as many people as possible and since a large number of people likely choose their powders by the velocity potential first and other reasons second publishing the highest velocity possible would be a sure way to increase sales. All that being said to suggest they probably have a good reason for stopping short of max pressure listings.

earl

[G-ManBart]

In wonder if the reason we see some powders charge weights listed as max yet they have PSI or CUP listings that are below industry standards for that particular round may be because larger powder weights resulted in pressure spikes occurring. It would seem that they would want their powder to appeal to as many people as possible and since a large number of people likely choose their powders by the velocity potential first and other reasons second publishing the highest velocity possible would be a sure way to increase sales. All that being said to suggest they probably have a good reason for stopping short of max pressure listings.

earl

That's certainly possible. Years ago I knew a guy that was an engineer at Hercules (now Alliant) and it was really interesting talking with him about this stuff. My father and I actually used to shoot some trap there (semi-private deal they'd invite folks to)....neat bunch of guys.

I tend to think that if they found a powder that had a stable, predictable pressure rise as the charge weights increased, but suddenly went from well under max to way over max with a slight charge increase, they'd be likely to not even publish data for that powder/combo at all. There are so many good alternatives it's not really worth the potential problem that could happen when folks push the limits...which they know a certain percentage of folks will try.

The way this relates back to the guy above is that one time I asked him how well they could predict a combination they hadn't tried before, or whacky things like mixing two powders 50/50. He said something like "yeah, we usually have a real good idea what's going to happen, and we're normally right on, but every once in a while we get totally surprised by something". If those guys can get surprised with what happens, that's really saying something. R,