Silly 98 Mauser Question

[TBF]

My son just bought a 98 Mauser, and I looked at it briefly.

Will single loading work with this setup ?

As in, not loading from the mag.

Or will the extractor get thrashed in the process ?

Silly question I know, but I don't have the gun here to look at for the answer.

Thanks in advance.

Travis F.

[old shooter]

If memory serves, you must push the round into the mag before loading. I don't think the extractor is designed to pass over the rim when the bold is closed.

Mike

[TBF]

That's what I have heard also.

But , I don't have the gun to look at right at the moment.

And Iv'e never had a real Mauser, just Mauser inspired stuff .

Travis F.

[Vlad]

The Mauser is a controled feed action, which means that the extactor does not snap over the rim, but that the rim comes up under the extractor as it rises from the magazine, and then it is carried into the chamber by the bolt, with the extactor holding it against the bolt face.

That being said, the standard Mauser extractor is this almost 4 inch monster. If you look at it you will note that it has two contact points with the bolt body. One is on the extractor sleeve and one further back at the rear of the extractor. The first front inch is "free floating" for lack of a better term, though it generally contacts the front of the bolt some, in the groove that controls its path.

Now, if you drop a round in the action (not in the magazine), push it gently with the bolt, while putting pressure with your finger on the extractor between the extractor sleeve and the rear contact point, the front of the extractor will rise and snap over rim. I don't know that I would do this all the time. I don't think it would harm the extractor any, but it is a pain in the butt.

It is actually a bit more usefull on some Mausers where you can get an extra round this away, assuming that the mag spring has enough flex left to allow you to press down on the top round with one hand while you push the bolt forward with the other, and push on the extractor with the third. Which is not so hard to do with a straight bolt, but a pain with a bent one.

Vlad

PS: I am not a gunsmith and I do not play one on TV. I doubt that what I described will hurt your extractor, but I might be wrong.

[JD45]

Under normal circumstances the M-98 is really made to feed only from the magazine. However, a properly built rifle will push feed and snap over the rim as it closes on a round. If a PH that hunts dangerous game has a M-98(or any control-feed action) built he nows that it better damn well feed even if it push feeds. I have three rifles that I got lucky with straight from the factory: two Win. M-70s (post 1995) and a Ruger M77-MKII. They all snap over a push-fed round like they are supposed to. Unfortunatly, a lot of M-98 type actions need to have the extractor tuned by a gunsmith. I think this feature should be reserved for emergencies because it will eventually mess-up the extractor tension.

[gm iprod]

An original M98 Mauser will not just snap the extractor over the rim of a round. It was never designed that way and will take some fitting to make it so.

JD45, you did not get lucky. The 'modern' Win M70 and the Ruger M77Mk2 will do this, as they were built to do so. They are NOT Mauser actions. You can tell they don't look like a Mauser and they don't have Mauser engraved on the side. The Rugers extractor is specifically designed to have more spring and available movement in it to allow any round that gets ahead of the bolt to be safely chambered. The action at the front ring has clearance to allow the extractor to move to the side.

The Winchester Original (pre 64) Model 70 was not usually able to do this. The more modern version has be modified to work similarly to the Ruger.

Snapping the extractor manually over the rim, as described, on an Original M98 design will certainly (sooner or later) make that extractor fail.

The only way to make a true Mauser action (or an other exactly manufactured duplicate) work as you wish, is to relieve the reciever just where the extractor contacts it on the right hand side of the front ring. This is not a load bearing area but extreme caution should be exhibited doing this, you then have to chamfer the front face of the extractor so that it engages slightly less of the rim and will more easily slip over when the round chambers. This also reduces the engagement on the extraction part of the cycle and may cause failures in extraction.

Many people have modified the Mauser to be used for target shooting and most were results were not as good as they could have been. They usually had extraction problems as the rifle got older, plus they generally do not shoot as well as the fine Remington 700, but after WW2 that was what was available.

The original Mauser action was design to take a case of 57mm and a long projectile hanging out the front. They are slightly shorter than the US made 'Mausers' like the P17 and the '06 but would accomodate the 30-06 round quite easily.

Now a PH will usually go with a controlled feed action as they have a proven reputation in Africa. As the name infers they are Professional, they are 'unlikely' to err when cycling a rifle. I sell stacks of old Mauser actions into South Africa, the hunters come to New Zealand and buy everything they can lay their hands on. What they really desire is the old controlled feed Brno 600 series actions in 375H&H and the like. They like big long actions that shoot big lumps of lead. They deal daily with things that will chew your head off, stomp on you and shit on the mark on the ground that you left behind. Seeing as there is no such thing as a stupid old PH, I go with what they use. Some even go as far as to still carry large bore doubles, but this is in the decline as they cost more money than God.

[TBF]

Thanks for the replies.

I guess he will just have to feed from the mag.

This is a real mauser, vintage, rebarreled for 308.

Looks like somebody spent alot of time and money on it, nice stock, good barrel, scope mount, etc.

Hope it didn't end up sold for a reason...

Thanks again,

Travis F.

[JD45]

gm iprod, good information. I know that the controlled feed design of modern actions were inspired by the Mauser design and that they are not true Mausers. However, I did not know that the M-98 was more difficult in tuning the extractor to snap over a rim. The articles written by PH's and gunsmiths that I have studied were mostly describing the pre-64 M-70. Since you say that the M-98 is quite a bit differrent, I'm going to start studying about M-98s and catch up on what I missed. If I read correctly, we agree that none of them should be push-fed on purpose.

[gm iprod]

JD45

Correct, not push feed on purpose. Many PH's are so fed up with the problems that they get from "customers" concerning firearms that they prefer the 98 Mauser as it is generally IDIOT proof. Unfortunately there are some genius idiots out there. So firearms makers have to take that into account.

Many PH's will not let some customers out in the field with what they bring, as they will be the next nearest person to any f***ups that are going to occur.

The Mauser was designed so that conscripts could make it go bang at some kind of enemy.

TBF.

You would not credit it.

I just traded today an old Parker Hale (actually Spanish / Santa Barbara made) Mauser Target rifle. The magazine follower has a nylon block placed under the spring and the spring has been shortened a fair amount to allow just one cartridge into the mag. Stocked in a crappy home adjusted Laminated stock. It feeds fine and the trigger is a Timney that has no safety and has been adjusted to 3lb, clean and crisp. Striker has been set up with a short throw and a heavier mainspring. Barrel is a 1:13 twist, .308 28" MAB from Australia, with Central 1/3rd MOA windage and elevation. Front sight is a std Anschutz style. Owner has only ever used it for Palma Match type shooting and is now quitting due to old age. The rifle has sat for 20+ years. He reckons it could shoot centrals off a rest no problems at 300, but he had trouble doing that himself off his elbows.

It will sell real cheap to someone wanting a start out gun. Looks like crap on the outside, the barrel is in excellent condition on the inside, should shoot well.

Just remind your friend that the feeding may be his main difficulty.

Do not expect McMillan accuracy, and he will be happy.

All else fails, have fun shooting bunnies at 300y + with it.

[mauser2506]

It is correct that the military 98 Mauser is designed for controlled round feeding only. But many have been modified so you can put a round directly into the chamber without having to feed it from the mag.

Most only require a slight angle change on the face of the extractor where it comes in contact with the cartridge as it is pushed into the chamber. I have altered several 98's this way and have not had any extraction problems or extractor failures. And Know of many that have had that alteration and have functioned well for over 40 years.

If you don't want to change the angle of the Extractor usually you can squeeze the bow of the extractor as you are closing the bolt and it will lift the claw around the case rim as it chambers.

I hope I have been of some help… This is the first time I have ever posted anything on a forum before.

[TBF]

Mauser,

Welcome to the forum.

Thanks all, for the info.

Travis F.

[Yardbird]

If you just want to load single rounds MidwayUSA sells a benchrest follower that sits in the mag on top of the original follower and allows singly loaded rounds to be picked up by the bolt without having to snap them down into the magazine.