40 S&W with WSF, Longshot, using Montana Gold 165gr

[Ben-WSU]

Today I tried my first reloads with my 40 S&W Beretta 96 Centurion. The results were less than successful.

My reloading setup is a Lee turret press (I don’t shoot enough yet to justify anything progressive). I am using RP brass, once fired, full sized with a EGW/Lee U-die. I have PMC small pistol primers (switching to CCI when this box is finished now that they are available again). And, I am using the Lee factory crimp die.

Bullet is Montana Gold CMJ at 165gr seated to COL of about 1.125.

My first test powder was Winchester Super Field (WSF). I used 5.9gr because the Lee auto-disk dumped that with the 0.53cc cavity. This load did okay except for velocity. Velocity Stats below:

Average 844 fps

Stdev 44 fps

Range 780 to 942 fps

The string was 15 shots, with two points thrown out due to low velocity (less than 115fps)

The Hodgdon website lists 6.3gr as the starting load and 6.7gr as the max load with corresponding velocities of 1055 and 1115 fps. So, I may work with this more, given that I have the adjustable charge bar now. However, I have a long way to 1000 fps and major power factor given that 5.9gr is giving 844 fps.

My second test powder was Hodgdon Longshot. This didn’t go well. I experienced greater than normal recoil and the report was extra loud. The brass was a little polished and had a slight bulge. I only shot two shots, one showed 860fps and the second read 630fps. The charge was 7.5gr, with the Hodgdon website showing starting load at 7.3gr and max at 7.8gr with correspond velocities of 1140 and 1185. Given that the recoil was excessive, the brass didn’t look good, and the velocity was way off I quit testing this one. I was disappointed because I was hoping to use a charge around 7.0gr to try and get low pressure round with velocity of 1050 fps.

Chrono data was supplied by a friend. I did a test string of Winchester White Box in 165gr, velocity stats were as follows:

Average 984fps

Stdev 17fps

Range 948 to 1017 fps

This was reasonable and showed the chrono was working.

There are lots of posts that say Titegroup is the way to go. Or, to try VV N320 or N340 (need to cofirm). Given that powder is move available now I may try one of those.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Ben

[ebg3]

The velocity spread you had with the WSF powder sounds strange. Maybe you should try the starting load and see if the velocities become more consistant then go up from there. I would think you could make major with that powder and be safe. According to Data from Modern Reloading, 6.5grs of WSF is the max. load with a 170gr jacketed bullet and an oal of 1.115" for a velocity of 1080 fps and 33,200 psi.

As for Longshot, my Hodgdon book shows a max. charge of 8.0grs with a 180gr xtp- oal of 1.125 with a velocity of 1159fps and 32,300psi from a 4" barrel. I would think a 165gr major load would be a low pressure/safe load. All that said, if it doesn't feel right to you, don't use it. Hope this helps.

Eddie

[CocoBolo]

Shooting a 165gr in a 40 and using slow powder you are going to have to double plug and buy a wrist brace. The only thing you could do to make it more snappy is use 135gr.

40 is used a lot in USPSA so these Limited loads are all designed to shoot soft, accurate, and for reduced flip.

Good powders for 40 with 165gr up to 220gr are WST, 231, N320, Clays, TiteGroup, Solo1000, there are a few more but but any of these will work a lot better than LongShot. WSF is sort of on the fast side of the slow powders so its not that far off.

I don't have a pet load for 165gr but in 180gr I use 5.1gr of WST, but I have run reduced loads (for the wife) from 3.8gr and it runs the gun and shoots fine. I only crono the major load and it has quite a bit of SD but I just make sure they all go fast enough, no penalty for too fast. This load cron's at 171pf at 95 F, will be faster at lower tempratures.

[LPatterson]

Loudshot err Longshot is to be avoided unless you are shooting an Open gun that needs lots of gas. If you have the time I would go to the 40 section of the reloading subforum and search for 165. Lots of load listed there.

[big_kahuna]

That chrono data for WWB sounds a little slow to me. Try another chrono setup to be sure. Check the basics, Screens 10' from muzzle and all that.

WWB 165's have not gone below 1030 fps on my club's chrono, but my data is at least a couple years old AND I am a half mile above sea level in the high desert... so there are several variables that could explain the velocity difference.

Try Titegroup for MG 165s. Check the Hodgdon website for data to supplement your loading manuals. Using 5.1 grains TG at OAL 1.130, my son went 171-174 PF all last season (sectionals, area and nationals). YMMV, so work up carefully using a known-good chrono and check for pressure signs.

I do use WSF in 40, but mainly for 180 grain lead bullets. I like TG better for jacketed, but will use WSF in a pinch. WSF recoils a little more but it is not a big deal.

Also consider lengthening your OAL a little bit... to 1.130 or so.

[GrumpyOne]

If you aren't opposed to trying new powders, give Alliant Power Pistol a try. I've been loading 40 with it for years. Try 5.6 - 5.8 grains, standard OAL. To me, it's the closest thing I've found to the Winchester White box ammo.

[mhanna77]

On the Longshot powder, I shoot 40S&W in USPSA and use Longshot exclusively in a 5" P226-X5 non-comp gun.

My mix for major is:

Montana Gold 180gr

Oal 1.127 (I have used up to 1.135 with no real differences in feeding or velocity)

Longshot 6.5gr

Federal primers

Avg Velocity 951

SD 19

My 7.0gr loads have produced

Avg Vel 1015

You should be able to repeat these results as I have shot through several lbs. of this powder and have been pretty happy.

*Use this info at your own risk!

[OUshooter]

Not sure what is going on with those Longshot loads. My current recipe for Major is:

mixed headstamp fired brass

CCI 500 primers

165grn berry plated bullets

7.0 grn of Longshot

COL 1.120"

EGW undersize die

RCBS taper crimp die

Making ~1100fps with spread of ~100fps(probably my powder thrower) out of an bone stock XD Tactical. I actually kind of enjoy the recoil and don't really find it hard to manage at all. But then again I'm still working on getting classified so take my comments with a grain of salt.

So far I've run ~500rds with this setup and I like it, but bout to switch to 180grn bullets.

I'm not about to question your chrono data from the winchester factory ammo, but those vel results sound kind of low. Out of your pistol I would have expected closer to ~1050 and better. But like I said I'm no expert.

I like Longshot because there is absolutely ZERO chance I will double charge a case. That's the primary reason I don't use a Clays type powder. Just my preference, and the fact it makes major at less than the list starting load.

[Ben-WSU]

Thanks for the info. Right now I am thinking of getting some Tightgroup of the VV N320 and starting over there.

I may try the Longshot again in the future with either a heavier bullet or heavier crimp, but am going to shelve that powder for now. I have reloaded for rifle for some time but I am new to pistol. I am going to avoid anything problematic until I have some more experience.

A friend of mine also suggested keeping the WSF and loading to minor PF velocities, which is appealing to me. Again, this would give me more experience with reloading pistol, and would help me learn the USPSA sport.

Good shooting,

Thanks,

Ben