mobocracy

Any time I work with primers I wear them. I want to load today, but I want to see *forever*. I also wear glasses with whatever the "best" impact rated polycarbonite lenses I can get from the eyeglasses place, but I'm not convinced they're "good enough" to stop a bit of metal accelerated by a primer explosion, so I add on a pair of safety glasses over them. I keep thinking I should wear muffs, too, but haven't gone that far. I do wear them when occasionally decapping a bad live primer (which I hope is deactivated by a healthy shot of WD-40).

I don't know. I have a .45 Colt kit that I haven't used yet, and looking at the parts and the press I can understand the point you make, but I guess they wouldn't sell the kit if it wouldn't work, plus a lot of rifle rounds are a lot longer than even 45 Colt.

I owned a SDB as my first press. Bought it in .45 ACP and a conversion setup for 10mm on the same day. I eventually added .44 Mag and .44 Spl setups (yes, same dies, but I wanted to switch without a lot of work). Great press. I ended up buying a 650 to load some calibers the SDB can't do and to get extra speed. I'm very saitsfied with the 650 relative to the SDB. No regrets at all. I sold my SDB and all my conversion setups on Ebay for about 70% of new, too, at "buy it now" prices. My Dillon dealer was pretty amazed it sold for so much money. I will say this, though: 1) I think the SDB priming setup is a lot better. Unused primers stay at station 2, and primers go from the magazine to station 2 right away. I never switched primer sizes on the SDB so I don't know how much work it is, but I'd wager its no more and probably less than the parts switched on on the 650. 2) I thought fine die adjustments were easier on the SDB due to the die bodies not moving/loosening when the lock nuts were released (they seem to be held by the delrin on the toolhead). On the 650 it requires a bit more attention/patience and occasionally a second wrench. 3) The Dillon-only die limitation on the SDB isn't all that bad when you consider than the 650 is in some ways limited by the caliber conversions available for it necessary to make the casefeed operate. Other than that, the 650 is a great machine although it is more complex than the SDB. My case feeder has worked great with everything from .44 Magnum down to .32 ACP (somehing unavailable on the SDB). I hope to eventually "wildcat" a setup for using the casefeed with .50 AE (a conversion not officially supported by apparently possible).

When you convert between calibers, you buy a caliber conversion kit from Dillon that includes some of the parts you refer to, as well as an additional shellplate, locater buttons, and all the other miscellaneous parts to make the press work with the different sized cases. These kits are seperate from the dies, though, which are of course caliber specific and purchased seperately from Dillon or whoever you buy your dies from. You will probably also want to buy a powder die and toolhead to make switching between other calibers simpler. And don't forget the case feed washer (which IIRC goes under the case feed plate) for loading large cases like 45 Colt, .44 Mag, etc.

I think I'm back in business! I totally re-adjusted everything, including a from scratch (if that makes sense) setup of the crimp die, or as Mr. Enos more correctly calls it, the case-bell-removing die. Using new bullets, I loaded 20 with new brass, and 10 each with used Starline and R-P brass from the "bad" lot, and they all worked as desired -- no pullouts in my 610 or setbacks in my Kimber STII. One final question, though. During the run of "bad" bullets I had a VERY slight belling adjustment setup, so slight that there was pretty much no perceptable belling. When I re-adjusted everything, I did increase the case bell a smidgen. Is there such a thing as too little belling, even if you're not shaving the jacket? As much as I'm pretty sure I just had the crimp die way too tight, I started wondering if inadequate belling could somehow cause the case seating area to get loosened/strecthed/etc. Thanks again for all the great info and advice!

I bought around 200 Winchester yellow brass cases with my Dillon SDB about three years ago. After a range trip and the daunting task of finding yellow 10mm cases in a sea of .40s, I ordered a case of Starline Nickel 10mm cases from Blue Star Cartridge & Brass. When Midway began carrying nickel Starline about a year and a half ago or so, I picked up another half case from them. I've also picked up 3-400 once-fired R-P nickel cases from my range; the owner knows I reload 10mm and doesn't know anyone else who does, so when he sorts fired brass he will pick out the nickel cases for me. I just checked Midway and they seem to have Starline Nickel and W-W available. Based on some previous messages, *I* may be in the market for another case of fresh brass, too, if this current stuff proves worn out and unable to retain bullets.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions. My thoughts are that I've pretty much ruined the bullets by overcrimping them. Some might be salvageable, but that's a different project. I think I ended up overcrimping them because a couple of years ago when I got my Glock 29, I was having just awful feed and ejection problems. I measured the case mouth of a factory R-P round and found my loads were larger by .002-3. A slight tightening of the crimp die on my SDB got my case mouth to match the R-Ps and my Glock jamming went away. I guess when I set 10mm up on my 650, I got too aggressive on crimping. What I'm going to do: Double-check all my dies, especially the crimp die (which will get a like-it-was-just-bought setup). Then I'm gonna take some brand-new brass and bullets and work up a half-dozen or so cartridges and see what these do. If that works, I'll reload some of my used brass with new bullets. If that works, I'll buy another case of bullets and load out the rest of my brass (after taking apart 1200 rounds...ugh). The acid test will be what happens with new brass and bullets. If I still have issues, it may actually by my size die (anyone have any issues with Redding Pro TiC size dies?). I might just splurge and buy a set of Dillon dies. The good news? When I get to reloading my cases, at least I won't have to use primer tubes -- they're already primed! If all this fails, maybe I'll just buy an airsoft Glock and throw empty 10mm cases to pretend they're ejecting.

First there was the sizing die that got loose, requiring pulling 500 bullets. One Lee pot-metal press and a collet puller later, I thought I was back in action. Until today! I went to the range to shoot some of my 10mm ammo yesterday and I always shoot a cylinder and/or a magazine of ammo and then check the last unfired round to make sure I have no obvious setback or pull-out problems. I did! My 135gr loads were really pulling out (when shooting my 610), the 180s a little less so. Both rounds also more dangerously set back in the magazine of my Kimber. Aww, crap I thought, not enough crimp. I came back, checked for loose dies (none, thankfully) and other obvious problems. I figured well, maybe it was just not enough crimp. I tightened down my crimp die by 1/6th of a turn, re-crimped a dozen rounds and then went another 1/6th tighter and crimped another 12, labeling both. Went to the range today and fired some known ammo with a couple of the recrimped rounds -- oh no! -- same problem as yesterday, to about the same degree. I pulled some of the bullets when I got home and noticed that they looked way overcrimped. I could feel a dent in the jackets where they had been crimped. They measured nearly .005 under what new bullets were. I could swear I've read that overcrimping taper-crimp cases actually makes the bullets looser, not tighter. Is this true? In this case, I'm screwed since it appears I've pretty much trashed about a case of 180gr JHPs and about 250 135gr JHPs. These cases have all been fired before, around 3-5 times, mostly on the high end of Alliant's published load data (~8.5gr Power Pistol). Can cases, even if not split, lose their "grip" over time? What's so frustrating about this is that a test batch of about 100 rounds worked fine, and so have around 3000 .41 Mag and .44 Mag rounds loaded on this press, as well as 3-4k 10mm rounds loaded on my old SDB. I *thought* I knew what was doing... Ahh humility -- between my collet puller, my time and the trashed bullets, I could have been shooting factory ammo..

I broke the screw-on cap of an RCBS puller after like 20 rounds. Farking thing exploded like a bomb, sending bits of plastic, powder, a bullet and a primed case flying. I bought a Midway (Crapford Arsenal?) model thats lasted at least 250 rounds now, but even it has now been shelved in favor of a Lee Pot Metal press and an RCBS collet puller.

+100000 on the Lee $20 press and the collet puller. Easy, fast and no more spilled powder. Now if only I could hire the college girl looking for babysitting money to run it...

No offense intended at all, but have you tried calling Dillon and immeditely asking if you can speak to a supervisor? Explain to the person who answers you have no gripe with them personally, but you've called a number of times and haven't gotten satisfaction, and you would like to speak with someone with more "pull". When you get to that person, DON'T explain your 1050 problem to them -- explain your CUSTOMER SERVICE problem to them. Tell them you have a problem that you haven't felt was troubleshooted or resolved properly despite numerous attempts by you to "work with the system" and you would like to speak with a more senior person who can work with you until your problem is SOLVED. If this doesn't work, you can either climb the ladder further (write a paper letter and mail it to Dillon detailing your problems and frustrations, etc) or just return the machine and live with your 650 and the Super Swager. This isn't the official Dillon Precision Reloading Forum -- it's a small part of Brian Enos forum, Brian happens to sell Dillon equipment and lucky for us, Dillon employees chime in once in a while presumably on their own time and of their own initiative, because they like Dillon products and want to help. Complaining that Dillon isn't answering your questions here isn't solving any problems or getting Dillon's attention in any constructive way. You need to direct your energy towards DILLON.

I'm just looking at it as more reloading toys...

OK, I'm sold. I have a $20 Lee single stage, an RCBS collet puller and collets for 10mm and .44 mag on the way. I even remembered to buy Lee shellholders. (I only have about 10 .44 mags to pull apart, but what the f -- at this point I hate that farking inertial puller...)

Can the RCBS puller work in a 650 (say in an empty station #3 or even in a plain empty toolhead? I'm guessing it would be a little hard on the shellplate, but who knows.

My only concern is what's the reference measurement for "sizer die screwed in too deep" so I can put the sizer die back where it was? I suppose I could mis-adjust it until I hit the same too-long OAL; that's about the only certain measurement I have. Unless I'm actually near where it was, I have no real idea if the powder drops I'm measuring are anything like the ones I was getting. I'm not saying it's a bad idea -- it's a wonderful distraction from just pounding out the 400 remaining cartridges.

You're not kidding. I pounded apart 100 last night in about an hour and a half, and my (admittedly pink and soft computer engineer's) hand is still a little raw from screwing and unscrewing the cap on the bullet puller. The die that came loose was the size die. It's a Redding die with the thick, knurled lock ring and I had to put the lock ring on the underside of the toolhead to screw the die down far enough to size the cases right. When it came loose, the size die actually screwed in further (since the lock ring was on the bottom). This resulted in the press not cycling completely -- OALs are way too long (1.265 in some cases where it should be 1.250), which also leads me to worry that the powder measures are coming up short, which is my main motivation for taking these cartridges apart. I'd bet the first half I loaded are probably safe to shoot (although accuracy and feed might suck), but when I load I usually just empty my full bin into a stainless steel bowl, which mixes the start and end of the run up. I might just shoot one box of them in my S&W 610 or 1006 for the hell of it to see what happens. Last night I stopped by the reloading store and picked up some of the good 1" Dillon lock rings I can really snug down. They're also thin enough that I can probably lock the size die from the top, too. I should probably also buy 4-5 more plastic cartridge bins to further segregate finished product so maybe "next time" I don't have to take them *all* apart. I guess you don't really learn until things go wrong.

I discovered a loose locknut on my toolhead, of course *after* loading 500 rounds of ammo. My finished cartridges are fubar and need to be disassembled and reloaded. Is it more or less safe to use the casefeed with the primed cases? Obviously I'll remove the size die so I won't decap any live primers. Nothing about the casefeed mechanism looks inherently dangerous to primed cases, but I'm sure that's probably what the crew of the unsinkable Titanic said about the North Atlantic.

$120 sounds like a bargain. There has to be at least 3 hours of labor involved in unpacking, checking it out, and repacking it. If you factor in return shipping and the cost of facilities, it's like free.

It seems pretty consistent to me. On my 650, if the weather stays about the same, I can expect to return to the loading bench two weeks later and have the press throw charges within +/- .1gr of where the press was last calibrated. When I calibrate charges, the average over 10 throws is usually within +/- .05gr of the "set" amount. Of course it can vary with powder types, the weather, but I generally think it stays pretty close round to round and over time. One semi-related thing I've noticed is that switching powder bars often can influence the consistency of the charging with the same powder. I switched to the large (larger of the two included powder bars included with the 650) to throw some 18gr Blue Dot charges for .44 Mag. The powder seemed easier to calibrate and slightly better on average throws with the larger bar, even for amounts that the smaller size bar I'd normally use. I'm sure this is obvious to some people, but to me it just clicked a light on that the shape and dimensions of the opening in the powder bar probably have a real impact on powder meetering.

For what it's worth, I finally was able to talk to my local Dillon/Redding/Supplies dealer and all around guru (John Walton, Gunstop Reloading in Minnesota). His advice was to crank the die all the way down, he didn't think cases would size right without it.

None of the pro series seat dies should have a crimp in them, though, since there's a seperate crimp die and no expander die, although the slip of paper this is written on does make reference to an expander die, so perhaps its some generic paper tossed in with EVERY combination die set. I'll give that a try. When I have mine adjusted this way, my sized cases certainly look right vs. having a gap between the die and the shellplate.

I load and shoot more 10mm ammo than any other, so I splurged and bought a Redding Competition Pro Series Ti-Carbide die set for my 650. There's a sticker on the inside of the case that says to adjust the seating and sizing die for the longer case of combination dies (in my case, 10mm) an additional 1/8" of an inch away from the shellplate. This makes sense for the seating die, but when I do this for the sizing die my cases do not look properly sized -- there's an obviously non-sized section of the case (on the order of .080-.010 larger). Confusing the issue further, is a blurb on the Redding Ti-Carbide die documetation saying that carbide dies weren't meant to fully size cases and should only be used to size the portion of the case expanded during firing. Which should be almost the entire case based on my caliper readings of fired cases vs. new (as in factory new) ammo. If I wind the die all the way down as per the Dillon pistol setup instructions (you almost need to put the lock ring on the bottom for 10mm; for .40S&W you absolutely would have to), the cases look properly sized. Is there any reason I can't run this die this way, or do I need to have it backed off 1/8" or more from the shellplate?

I have to get a step stool to get an idea of how many cases are left in the hopper. I think it would be great if the hopper was made with clear plastic or had a substantial window for peering into the hopper without having to get up high. My press is mounted kind of high (I'm 6'2 and can work it comfortably on a stool), so maybe this isn't a problem for guys without strong mounts and desk-height mounts.

You use a RCBS RockChucker/Piggyback. You can't produce in high volume due to all the down time. I was implying more or less the irony of "optimizing for low volume", or at least what seemed like irony at the time.

So he finally did get a new shipment in. Oh well, I need to go check out the new shop and get some die sets from him anyway..