DryHeat

Radman, This may be helpful if you have not settled on a fix yet. Powder Valley has Nitro 100 in stock, just minutes ago. I have burned 1/2 a metric ton of this stuff in 38 spl. A couple other notes. My sliding scale Lee Powder measure indicated the .3 scoop threw 2.2 gr of Nitro 100. Western Powder edition 5.0 and 7.0 have identical loads listed. 140gr L start 2.7 max 3.0 158gr L start 2.4 Max2.7 . I started with a Lee reloading kit, it worked, life was wonderful. Now I use scales and presses. As the others have warned you the 38spl is a large case, large enough for some powders to be a bomb. Be careful and welcome to the world of reloading.

Jimmielew, Just one suggestion Buy Lyman 50th edition reloading hand book. The load is in there and the front of the book is full of stuff that's nice to know.

Miranda, I enjoy reloading because of the demanding nature. If you are not organized it is a tragedy waiting to happen. I do not criticize those who reload only because they shoot a lot, I say go for it and enjoy life. In the 90's when the plated bullets came out I tried them and didn't care for the results, I went back to jacketed bullets in the 9mm. I shot a lot of lead cast and swaged bullets, in cartridges that historically loaded with cast bullets. The shortages today have caused us all to try to get by. I think I have a couple cast loads that will do well enough. I can't thank you enough for showing that you care about reloading and the reloading community. I went and logged on to Castboolits and I will farm that patch for info. THANKS

Miranda, Thanks for a series of posts that provide absolute clarity to the problem. I came here to find a solution and you provided such with out bluster, Thanks!

ML123, A difference of several thousands effects the expanding and belling operation, a lot. I have seen a difference in the bell or flare on the case alter the way the bullet seats. Some seat dies, specially if they seat and crimp are negatively effected. I seat and crimp in separate steps, length changes cause a change in the dimension of the bell. My Redding micro adj. seating die will not tolerate much of a difference at all. I see a lot of case length variation because I resize the case from the base up in a separate operation. This gets rid of the ugly bulge at the base of the case, "Glock Bulge", as it is called. I use a Magma Engineering Case Mater Jr, it works very well. I have been "Bit in the Ass" by case length more than once. Four decades ago, pre "Glock Bulge", I never trimmed, there was no need. I have measured before and after and found as much as .009 change in case length, then we would not go into battery. As others have mentioned here, most of the variation is in the cast and coated bullets, some are a real disappointment. These commenters know progressive press problems, my friends use them and I hear stories just like the commenters here. With my singles station operation, this very same problem was variation in components, cases and bullets. Good luck

ML123, This may help. Check case length and trim all to be as close as possible, I can't get closer than +/- .0015, it takes practice. I sort cases, some people don't and never have problems. I use a very old single station press, most here use progressive presses. Different presses and different dies mean different issues, it can be an obsession if you let it. Wide variation in COAL is the fly in the ointment, look at case length for a start. If COAL variation is no more that .015 I cant see it in my SD numbers from the chronograph, any thing greater would be a concern. My fear with COAL variation is fail to feed or to go into battery, I load for a lot of different pistols. Seat dies are a challenge, try something else if you don't find a solution. Some cast and coated bullets have driven me stark raving mad, FMJ's are the best, JHP's next. Good Luck

Impact, I am currently looking for a solution to this very problem. I have Dillon, RCBS, and Redding sizing dies for the 9mm, I use the RCBS the most, it does not undersize as much as the Dillon. The best I have been able to do is deformation of about .0006 on the plated bullet, this is with no crimp, insert bullet and then turn around and pull the bullet. At 5 yards the bullet seems perfect, at 10 yards, on a new target the hole is not round. It took a while to notice this, not paying attention I guess. A careful look shows the bullet starting to tip. At 25 yards 1/4th of the holes in the target are a noticeable tip, can't miss it. This pistol will shoot Aguila 124gr into a 2 1/4 group off bags if I hold steady at the 25 yard mark. I am trying to make these bullets work, I just can't get what I really want, a good cheap jacketed bullet. I think they are too soft for use in a pistol cartridge, bullets I can move with the pressure of my thumb, pressing as hard as I can, when those bullets are pulled, not all but most don't measure the same as they were before being seated. Please if someone has the answer share it.

NETim, I have posted about the very same problem, different guns but same problem. Big variation COAL and high reject rate with my EGW cartridge checker. I do not have a definitive answer, I do have some clues. The Redding Micro seater, which is wonderful on some bullet profiles, gut only some. I have had zero luck with this die and coated bullets. Variation in bullet diameter is a factor, the larger the diameter the closer the bullet is to the lands. I think part of the problem is also mold variation, how many molds are used to make a batch, probably 8, this a big chance for variation. I also think the coatings vary a lot, I can see it but have not devised a simple way to measure it, I am trying to use an R8 collet for tests. Revolvers eat all of this stuff and never even burp. At least one of my buddies guns, all pistols and 9mm, will find something to bitch about. I don't know a way they can apply these coating with the methods in use and keep them accurate, some thicker, some thin, some thick on one side, I can see this but have not measured it yet. Set the COAL so you have a margin of safety and go for it. If someone knows for sure, please holler up. Thanks

slowhands, I have posted about my experience with the same die and the same problem, it was with a different bullet. My problem has been ONLY with coated bullets so far. I have read suggestions to remove the spring. I frustration I cleared the bench and made up some dummy rounds of long time favorite loads with FMJ bullets, hdy and everglades, the problem doesn't exist with those bullets. I don't think I was getting crooked started bullets, I had no bulging but large variation in COAL. I am using different seat die for now. If I figure it out I will blab about it.

My loads with my friends Sig X5 with the stock unmodified barrel with that exact bullet requires a COAL of less than 1.070. I set at 1.065 to make up for the +%- in the seating operation.

Hogrider Your list of variables has only 2 variables easy to work with. The assumption being you want to use that powder, case, bullet, primer. I make up 20 shot strings and vary the powder .1gr up and .1gr down, check the std. dev and see if it moves and if it does move did it improve or get worse. If the powder charge causes the std. dev to get worse up or down then you were at the best spot with that powder. Repeat the process with COAL, depending on your bullet seater and how tight the range +- on length, then look for the change in std. dev, try to see if it's working for or against you. I have had a few loads that were very good with a higher std. dev, but mostly the other way. The better the std. dev the better the load. I hope this maybe helps you see an approach. Good luck.

Teacher Data from Accurate load guide #3.5, 115gr Nosler JHP 3.5 to 4.5 gr. Data from Accurate load guide # 7.0, 115gr Nosler JHP 4.0 to 4.5 gr. Tested load 115gr Eggleston cast truncated cone produced 1035 fps with 27 standard deviation, results from Oehler 35p. COAL is 1.065 to 1.070, this is close to max for this bullet, be careful. Tested load 4.0gr Solo 1000.

Hogrider Thanks for the detailed input and the link to a very good explanation for seating depth and COAL. It's about the same as I used the keep the bullets just off the rifling loading a 220 Swift. The seating die does make the noise when I reverse the lever, come off of full seating depth. I am new with this type of die, I was hoping for a cure in COAL variation, not the case, in fact it got worse. I understand variation in bullet length, measure for that on a per batch basis, I usually grab 50 out of 750 or 1000 and set down and measure and record, if I use a seat die that pushes on the nose and not the ogive the difference is inside the case in theory and most of the time in practice. I have picked SWC seat stems that only touch the nose of the Truncated Cone 9mm bullets. I have used the barrel from my pistols as a gage, but only to confirm that I hadn't gone mad yet. I use 3 gages, a Dillon case gage, a Wilson Pistol Max gage, more on that later, and an EGW 7 cartridge gage. I use a PTG GO-NO Go field set to check the pistols, all but one passed. I think the bullet diameter is ok enough, I buy the .356 dia. bullets as suggested for lead over the years. The coated bullet I am working with on this load measures .3565 +.0000 -.0005. I think they are as good as I can get in a lead cast bullet. I think a die formed cup and core bullet is better, but it costs a lot more. I would like to be cranking out 12 to 15 hundred rounds a week, it was a regular week with jacketed bullets. My real issue haunts my loading bench with the coated bullets. When I bell the case mouths I have walked around the barn a couple of times, I bell only enough to get a good straight start for the seating process. I typically load up 3 or 4 dummy rounds for checking later. I use a separate taper crimp die and I only use enough crimp to straighten the case wall, if it isn't good the EGW cartridge checker will show it up. On my dummy rounds I use a kinetic puller and check for over crimp and damage to the coating. I learned in the late 90's I think about too much crimp on plated bullets in the 9mm, too much crimp and it seemed like they left the barrel sideways. I thank you for your thoughtful help. I think you know what my goal is, if the factories can do it, so can I. Stay on two wheels and thanks for the help.

MemphisMechanic, Thanks for the input, I suspected a large variation would be the case in a progressive press, and if I can get a grip on some of these little nit picks I will set up a progressive and run batches of proven loads. I don't load mixed brass, yeah, I know, I sit there and sort the damn stuff, by brand and by head stamp variation. My issue is I really like to make good ammo, I know if it goes bang and hits the paper close that is often all that is needed. I am loading for 14 different 9mm pistols. My close friend has a dozen and I handload. With just my 2 life is easy, the extra 12 make it interesting. I want to be able to load safe accurate ammo that feeds correctly, ejects and returns to battery. I am watching components getting hard to get and coated bullets seem to be the way to go. Thirty years ago I bought my brand name bullets, went to the reloading manual by the same manufacture and picked a load. I read the specs on the page and go by the data and it always worked. Today we can buy bullets with no or minimal load data, maybe a close COAL, so it needs to be developed. I do use a chronograph, I am trying to get my coated bullet loads at least close to jacketed bullet ammo. I am trying to get input from you folks that have done more volume 9mm than I have. I hate having a sheepish look and wondering why a load works in my 2 pistols and 10 0r 11 of my friends. Sometimes its simple, "Has this ever been cleaned?" Thanks for the tips!

Hogrider. You mention removing the spring, I had not thought of that, thanks for the tip. I will try and see if it helps. You also mentioned to make sure the shell plate is full and then final adj?? Do you mean I should bottom the die against the shell holder, I am using a single station press for this operation. Does the shell plate do the same thing in a progressive loader. I picked up on that from another contributor a couple of weeks ago, maybe it's helping I can't tell yet. Back to the spring, if I am seating a jacketed bullet FMJ or JHP the Redding die seems to work it's best. The real issue, the issue that got me here for help, is with coated bullets. When I seated coated bullets I had my greatest variation in COAL. The problem didn't stop there, every once in a while, 8 or 10 cartridges the seat die would make a loud snapping noise, as if the coating had a "Sticky" property to it. My bullets don't feel sticky but I also remember the feeling of the slide being harder to pull back with a coated bullet sometimes. My guess is there is a variation in the thickness of the coating on the ogive of the bullet. I can't measure much difference on the diameter, .0005+- with a really good mic. I don't think it has to do with dia. it seems like the ogive. All I see to do is seat deeper for a safety margin and watch the powder charge because of the deeper seating. Thanks for any ideas.