Jeff226
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Posts posted by Jeff226
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With typical 8 round strings how is 15 rounds in production going to make production a big attraction?
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On 5/30/2019 at 11:02 AM, motosapiens said:
My agency of 300 officers is still shooting 40. In fact we recently phased out the legacy 9mm and 45 guns.
IMHO, there are so many 40 guns out there, that there will still be plenty of brass long after every agency has stopped using it. I wouldn't worry.
ooohhh, 300 officers...BFD.
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6 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:
Well I never said the velocity of two bullets with the same PF is different. I said the case capacity is different, which means the pressure in the case is different. Pressure is what damages guns. Pressure is the reason your local gun shop sells 357 sig but not 9 major. The example of the ammo in the OP of 150 PF is still minor, it needs another 150 FPS to make a major with a little margin for error at the chrono stage.
I'm still curious what your 9 major load is and how many rounds you put through your stock G17.
The comment of mine that you quoted, bolded, and apparently disagreed with was clearly about velocity being the same. It is obvious 150 is < 165 (I think we have moved on from that) and what does the local gun shop have to do with physics? You can buy 9mm major online, here is one example: https://atlantaarms.com/products/9mm-major-147gr-jhp-elite.html Atlanta Arms is not immune to lawsuits and they don't IQ test before each sale.
How does pressure damage one of two identical guns (except for cartridge), firing identical bullets at identical velocities, more than the other if neither case is rupturing? What formula calculates the extra damage? I think I shot some 225 PF ammo in a Glock 21...did I damage it more than shooting 175 pf ammo in the Glock 17? Superdude posted a formula that offhand appears to be correct for recoil force but I don't see pressure in there anywhere.
I am curious how your side questions about my Glock 17 are going to help explain what you haven't explained so far with math?
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3 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:
Perhaps, explain the math to me that says case capacity doesn't matter when reloading.
Obviously case capacity matters when reloading but we all know 9mm can make major with the case capacity it has.
If 357 sig and 9mm major are both loaded to the same pf in identical guns using the same 124 gr bullets, how does case capacity result in "blazingly faster" velocities in 9mm major that destroys guns sooner or makes them harder to shoot than than the 357 sig? Which formula uses case capacity to prove that?
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9 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:
Clearly you don't load 9 major, but are willing to talk like you know things.
No, you are either struggling with math or english but yet still insist on arguing.
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21 minutes ago, TrackCage said:
That's because people that actually shoot a division don't complain about it.
Nonsense. You'll notice all of the relaxed rules in production on grip stippling, finger groove removal, and trigger swaps...because people complained and they were dumb rules. These are just a few of the many obvious examples of changes based on "feedback."
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4 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:
It's a good plan, take one of the biggest most popular divisions and split it into two smaller ones. But, no there aren't a ton of "untapped participants" holding out because there isn't a limited minor division. Shoot Prod, PCC, CO, SS, or Revolver if you want to shoot minor. Hell shoot Limited minor if you're only shooting level-1's anyway it wont really matter that much. If someone wants to be serious about limited they'll get the right gear, just like any other division. Otherwise don't worry about changing things so much. Find the division you like and shoot it.
Oh, and there is already a place for Limited minor, it's called IDPA-ESP. Boom, problem solved.
Case capacity.
It will still be the biggest most popular divison, even bigger, but it will be limited minor. This is something best left to big picture people so save your same old tired suggestions. Either USPSA is going to adapt or someone else (possibly IDPA with more rules changes) will accommodate and kill the USPSA...fine with me either way. It is dumb to have your largest division with the broadest possible market appeal forcing people to reload a dying cartridge to have the "right gear."
Velocity is velocity. 165pf velocity from 9mm is not "blazingly" faster than 357 sig using the same bullet regardless of case capacity.
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On 4/22/2019 at 9:18 AM, Sarge said:
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1 hour ago, lcs said:
And next time it could be a loaded gun.................Do you worry then...
I have yet to see a loaded gun jump up and start shooting people by itself.
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12 hours ago, Sarge said:
I don’t like being in front of guns no matter their ready condition or location
You must have a hard time shopping at the gun store with all of those handguns pointing at you in the display case or dealing with all of those bagged/cased guns lasering you on the way to the safe table.
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16 hours ago, rowdyb said:
Shadow 2 is the most popular PRod gun right now. Not allowing a factory made version of it into CO really lessens the potential growth of all those who are CZ shooters. It would definitely increase cross pollination from Prod to CO. How this is a rules screw up is just your judgement.
At least you have the option of reducing the weight and CZ shooters have proven money is no object when it comes to gaming divisions...so I don't really see a big barrier to cross pollinating.
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3 hours ago, Sarge said:
It’s what keeps our sport so safe. If you can’t see that then you may not be a good fit for shooting games with rules.
This sport is safe in large part due to common sense and a good bit of luck as there are many questionable things permitted/not prohibited by the rules that certainly aren't offset by an unhealthy fear of an empty gun resting on a barrel.
If you are one of those obedient rules/laws make us safe guys then you are probably not qualified to figure out where I am a good fit.
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I am having a hard time stirring up sufficient worry over an empty gun lying on a barrel.
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On 4/3/2019 at 4:52 PM, rowdyb said:
And should uspsa ever change their rules and allow the CZ factory made, optic ready, Shadow 2 OR into uspsa carry optics then it will grow even more so!!
Yeah, screwing up CO the same way they screwed up production would be marketing genius
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On 4/4/2019 at 3:33 PM, IHAVEGAS said:
About as popular as limited minor.
The popularity of limited minor is affected by it being stuck as the bastard child of .40
On 4/4/2019 at 4:00 PM, Southpaw said:That's not a division...
Should be
On 5/8/2019 at 9:21 AM, MemphisMechanic said:You get polymer striker gun reliability and DIY-gunsmithing in a highspeed division with lots of bullets and a dot. It isn’t hard to understand the appeal.
On 5/10/2019 at 8:23 AM, davsco said:yep, all these things, plus low cost of entry (gun and mags)
Imagine how popular limited minor would be if it was its own competitive division with the even lower cost of entry by not having to add the dot and the slide machining (in many cases).
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On 4/30/2019 at 3:57 PM, zzt said:
Because the comp redirects gas. 9 major out of a non-ported, non-comped gun is going to go blazing out the front of the barrel at velocities greater than your 45 load. That will drive the slide back faster and cause more wear/damage.
You can shoot .40, 357 sig, and 9mm all out of the same Glock models, none of them have compensators. How is 165pf 9mm more destructive than 185pf .40 factory loads? How is the velocity of a 165 pf 9mm more blazing than the same 165 pf from 357 sig using the same exact bullet?
I shoot 9mm major out of my stock Glock 17 all the time. Doesn't feel all that much different than 40 or 357 especially when I put the stiffer .40 cal recoil spring in.
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On 4/30/2019 at 10:15 PM, hamiltonian said:
Well said, MemphisMechanic; I think this is the real reason. Every limited shooter would have to get a new 9mm top end put on their guns to stay competitive. However, it would reduce ammo costs and simplify reloading chores.
Nobody is required to do anything if they just split Limited major and minor into two competitive divisions. That is the easy fix and makes way too much sense because there are a ton of untapped participants that don't want to be bothered with reloading powder puff .40s or buying a gun for a dying caliber.
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On 4/30/2019 at 12:03 PM, Racinready300ex said:
That sounds dumb.
So I'll have to bump my load up from 170-172 to 185 or so. Harder on me, harder on my gun, more money in components. Oh and I get to down load all my mags to 18, the RO will have to keep track to make sure I didn't load 19 so he can bump me to open. All that and it would still be dumb to shoot minor.
180 pf is factory 40 cal. Agreed, it is definitely dumb to shoot minor as long as it is stuck in a division giving a scoring advantage to 40.
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On 4/29/2019 at 8:23 PM, hamiltonian said:
And why are we still forbidden to shoot 9mm major in Limited Division????
Fudds love their .40
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1 hour ago, shred said:
The current-hotness USPSA Production guns-- CZ Shadow 2 and the Tanfoglioos weigh more out of the box than the SS max of 43oz.
Then they get to add another 4oz if they want. Bull barrels and so on are also g2g on PD guns.
Magwells maybe make up for the different in mag opening to begin with. Grip safeties? Is that still a thing?
There really is no difference that matters.
Whether the differences matter or not in the results isn't the issue...the issue is whether we going to change the production rules to allow mag wells, safety disabling, and major power factor in order to arbitrarily stick a dying class inside another class? Having another selection on the signup sheet for single stack is the difference that matters least and we already have limited 10 to dump single stack into with no rules changes.What actually is the benefit to removing single stack?
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It is hard enough dodging people during walkthroughs and paste/reset. There is no way I am getting involved in picking up brass (mine or theirs). I consider the match brass lost...cost of participation.
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43 minutes ago, Joe4d said:
Eliminating separating guns with different triggers for no reason. After going over some data.. there is no reason for single stack single action guns to be separate from production, nor to force TDA guns with locked and cocked capability to start hammer down.
There is more involved than just triggers. You can add magwells, disable grip safeties, and have gun weight far heavier than most production guns in single stack...maybe more.
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On 10/15/2018 at 11:53 PM, Gloxrunna said:
So I have shot CZ, Limcat, Atlas, and Glock and I know it sounds weird but there is something about the Glock that I absolutely love for competition. Here is my Limited G17.
Does anyone else feel the same way about choosing Glock over 2011 platform pistols?
Yes, if you want to shoot limited minor than a Glock is perfect because it is cheap...you don't want to invest a lot into minor in limited under the current rules.
When you get serious about limited you need a 40 cal 2011.
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On 11/13/2018 at 3:30 PM, MemphisMechanic said:
Also, I too would love to see match results with Minor coming out on top of Major.
Will rarely happen because the scoring gift to 40 S&W lite is too much.
If .40 dies one day, what to do with Limited?
in USPSA/IPSC Shooting
Posted · Edited by Jeff226
The caliber wars are over, diversity is in full swing, and the insignificant holdout agencies will eventually get swept up into one of the bigger agencies' purchase contracts. If HRT can get the job done with a Glock 17 then I am not sure why the Amtrak Police can't do the same. In the meantime we can thank the 300 officer agencies for their massive contributions to the 40 cal brass supply.
Which 9mm are you consolidating away from?